RE: XAUI IO specs
Hi Ali
I thought that the 800 mV was the normal ecl(or pecl) output of 800 mV
standard for those
logic families where either side measures 800 mV max to min. If the level
is measured after
the driving resistance on a line terminated both ends then 400mV makes sense
as a maximum.
Also, 200 mV makes sense as a minimum at the receive end.
All numbers above single ended measurements and would be double for
differential measurements with
a differential probe across a differentially driven line.
Ron Miller
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ghiasi
> Sent: Thursday, April 27, 2000 10:41 AM
> To: stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org; kdemsky@us.ibm.com; t11_2@dpt.co;
> jenkins@lsil.com; rtaborek@earthlink.net
> Cc: Ali.Ghiasi@Eng.sun.com
> Subject: Re: XAUI IO specs
>
>
> Hi
>
> Several question have been raised about XAUI "Hari" specifications and
> what was some of the
> intentions:
>
> o. Based on my understanding and everyone who participated during
> conference call the Vp-p
> differential max defined as 800 mV.
>
> - This means each side of the driver has a swing of 400 mV.
>
> - Logic 1 would defined as Vo+ at (VCM+400 mV) and V0- at
> (VCM-400mV)
>
> - Logic 0 would defined as Vo+ at (VCM-400 mV) and V0- at
> (VCM+400mV)
>
> - If the driver output VDp-p <85 mV you got noise.
>
> VCM- Voltage Common Mode
> VDp-p Voltage Differential p-p
>
> o. During the time we defined Hari, we explicitly left out reference to
> VCM. This was due to
> interoperablity of different logic voltage levels and technologies. For
> example most of the
> existing SerDes today, it is not possible to connect the driver directly
> to the same part
> receiver. At the same time there are some applications such as large
> switches which may be
> very desirable not to use Ac-coupling caps. In some of these applications
> you may end up using
> several thousands of caps on a backplane. In another standard I proposed
> the followings an is
> incorporated in to the specifications:
>
> - If the transmitter does not provide VCM of 0.75 V, then must add
> AC caps
> - If the receiver can not tolerate 0.75 V of VCM, then it must add
> AC caps.
>
> Overall the above definition of VCM would not burden the implementation as
> it is optional and
> only high applications need it.
>
> o. I have also had several comments on the drive amplitude. If we decide
> to define copper
> twin-ax cable of length 10-15 m, we would need to increase the amplitude
> somewhat. IB drive
> amplitude are higher than Hari. One option here might be:
>
> - Drive hari levels pre-emphasis Off
> - Drive IB levels turn pre-emphasis On
>
> I hope this answers some of your question.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ali Ghiasi
> Sun Microsystems
> (650)786-3310
>
>
>
>
> > From: kdemsky@us.ibm.com
> > X-Lotus-FromDomain: IBMUS
> > To: HSSG <stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org>
> > Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:25:03 -0500
> > Subject: Re: XAUI IO specs
> > Mime-Version: 1.0
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> >
> >
> > Rich,
> >
> > Since I am an electrical PHY guy, I have been lurking and waiting for
> the
> > I/O subject to surface. It may be premature to talk about I/Os when the
> > overall solutions have not been nailed down yet, but since the subject
> has
> > been raised, I will offer clarification of the I/O issue at hand.
> >
> >
> > an excerpt from Rich's reply,
> >
> > >When the Output is set to a logic one, the positive differential
> signal,
> > >referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of +400 mV and the negtive
> > differential
> > >signal, referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of -400 mV.
> >
> > >When the Output is set to a logic zero, the positive differential
> signal,
> > >referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of -400 mV and the negtive
> > differential
> > >signal, referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of +400 mV.
> >
> > >I'd call this V diff peak-to-peak, but this I'm NOT an expert in this
> > area.
> >
> > >Best Regards,
> > >Rich
> >
> > The above attempt at clarification made me more confused. No offense
> > intended, Rich. :) The way the above is worded I can still take it two
> > ways. I think if I look at the way each signal is described above, and
> in
> > the logic one case positive output is +400 from the common mode, and the
> > negative output is -400 from the common mode, then we have an 800 mV
> > differential for logic one, and also folowing the next paragraph we have
> > -800 mV leaving Vdiff =1600 mV peak-to-peak. I don't think this is the
> > case for several reasons.
> >
> > Perhaps the numbers came from or match the IEEE LVDS spec on page 10 of
> > IEEE Std 1596.3-1996. The common mode is intended to be 1.2 Volts, and
> the
> > differential is NOT specified peak-to-peak, but merely differential.
> |Vd|
> > has absolute value signs around it and therefore doesn't care about
> > polarity. In this case, |Vd| max = 400mV. The picture has the output
> > driver at a common mode of 1.2 Volts, and each of 2 differential
> signals
> > swings single ended from 1.0 to 1.4 Volts. In one case the difference
> is
> > +400 mV (positive peak), and when polarity switches the difference is
> > -400mV (negative peak). The differential peak-to-peak then is +400 -
> > (-400) = 800 mV.
> >
> > Differential I/O Specs can be confusing. Darn those factors of two!
> > Additionally, it is nice to know the common mode (average of the two
> > signals). If you truly mean LVDS, please reference IEEE Std, or
> > ANSI/TIA/EIA, or other LVDS compatible. Or, in the absence of referring
> to
> > a spec, draw a picture of the signal or write 1000 words.
> >
> > I also realize that there are bigger fish to fry than I/O levels and it
> may
> > be premature to talk about I/O levels. However, if the XAUI/XGXS
> > solutions are maturing, please offer clear I/O definitions.
> >
> > For happy reading, OIF (Optical Internetworking Forum) Document
> > #OIF99.102.5 has defined a common electrical interface between SONET
> framer
> > and serializer/deserializer parts for OC-192. It looks to be a fairly
> > mature document for what HSSG calls the PCS/PMA interface. This would
> be
> > the 16-bit serializer/deserializer and clock and data recovery spec.
> Some
> > work could be leveraged from this document.
> >
> >
> >
> > Kevin Demsky
> > Mixed Signal and VLSI Development
> > IBM Corp.
> > 3605 Hwy 52 N
> > Dept. QXS Bldg. 050-2
> > Rochester, MN 55901
> >
> > Internal E-mail: kdemsky@ibmusm07
> > External E-mail: kdemsky@us.ibm.com
> >
> > Phone: 507-253-5799
> > Fax: 507-253-4966
> >
> >
> > Rich Taborek <rtaborek@earthlink.net> on 04/15/2000 05:05:52 PM
> >
> > Please respond to rtaborek@nserial.com
> >
> > To: HSSG <stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org>
> > cc:
> > Subject: Re: XAUI IO specs
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > I'll have to defer to Mr. Ali Ghiasi and Mr. Richard Dugan on this issue
> to
> > properly resolve the nomenclature. My understanding of the parameters
> > listed is
> > as follows using Vo Dif(max) 800 mV as an example:
> >
> > When the Output is set to a logic one, the positive differential signal,
> > referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of +400 mV and the negtive
> > differential
> > signal, referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of -400 mV.
> >
> > When the Output is set to a logic zero, the positive differential
> signal,
> > referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of -400 mV and the negtive
> > differential
> > signal, referenced to a 0 V ground, is a maximum of +400 mV.
> >
> > I'd call this V diff peak-to-peak, but this I'm NOT an expert in this
> area.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Rich
> >
> > --
> >
> > Mark Kerestes wrote:
> > >
> > > Rich, Ali
> > > On slide 22 of the XAUI/XGXS Proposal from Albuquerque was listed :
> > > Vo Dif(max) 800mV
> > > Vo Dif(min) 500mV
> > > Vin Dif(max) 1000mV
> > > Vin Dif(min) 175mV
> > > I assume these are truely Vdif and NOT Vdif peak to peak? I have some
> > > confusion from looking back at the
> > > Nov 5 1999 "HARI the Electrical Interface" which seems to have a table
> > > that mixes Vdif and Vdif peak to peak
> > > showing PECL vs LVDS vs HARI side by side.
> > > Best regards,
> > > Mark
> >
> > -------------------------------------------------------
> > Richard Taborek Sr. Phone: 408-845-6102
> > Chief Technology Officer Cell: 408-832-3957
> > nSerial Corporation Fax: 408-845-6114
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> >
> >
> >
>