RE: Equalization
Ali, It seems to me that you are supporting the existing objectives. i.e.
100 meters and an optimal solution. The voting in San Diego represented
where the consensus was at that time.
Regarding 850CWDM we are working to increase our 73% of the room (highest of
any non approved solution) to 75% of voting members. We introduced this
solution to IEEE only two meetings ago, the proposal has been very stable.
All other solutions including ribbon fiber have been introduced for many
many meetings.
850CWDM uses the same electronics as the four fiber solution you are
promoting. This is the reason why we are able to provide the early
availability that we have presented and the attractive pricing versus the
1300 WWDM and serial solutions.
The primary difference between 850CWDM and the four fiber VSR solution is
that we meet the objectives without requiring new installation of ribbon
fiber. We use standard duplex SC legacy 62.5 micron fiber (160MHz.km) to
meet the 100 meter objective and standard available 50 micron fiber
(500MHz.km) to meet the 300 meter objective.
In short we have all of the advantages of the eight fiber proposal you are
mentioning except we don't require the customer to use ribbon fiber,
standard multimode works just fine.
Sincerely,
Bill Wiedemann
Blaze Network Products
VP Business Development
billw@blazenp.com
925-560-1610 x169
408-396-6679 mobile
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org
[mailto:owner-stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org]On Behalf Of ghiasi
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 4:53 PM
To: edward.chang@NetWorthTech.com
Cc: stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org; wthirion@jatotech.com;
SwansonSE@corning.com; Ali.Ghiasi@Eng.sun.com
Subject: RE: Equalization
HI Ed
> From: "Edward Chang" <edward.chang@NetWorthTech.com>
> To: "ghiasi" <Ali.Ghiasi@eng.sun.com>, <stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org>,
<wthirion@jatotech.com>, <SwansonSE@corning.com>
> Subject: RE: Equalization
> Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 15:07:43 -0400
> MIME-Version: 1.0
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
> X-Priority: 3 (Normal)
> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
> Importance: Normal
> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300
> X-Resent-To: Multiple Recipients <stds-802-3-hssg@majordomo.ieee.org>
> X-Listname: stds-802-3-hssg
> X-Info: [Un]Subscribe requests to majordomo@majordomo.ieee.org
> X-Moderator-Address: stds-802-3-hssg-approval@majordomo.ieee.org
>
>
> Ghiasi:
>
> The 3-PMD you chose was the set rejected by 802.3 in La Jolla by only
> getting 57% yes vote, and the parallel optics of 4-fibers failed by only
> getting 38% yes vote
Not bad for being added to the PMD vote just before the vote was taken.
.... 75% yes vote is required.
>
> If you propose the same thing again, we will be stuck there with only
> 1550/1310 serial PMDs forever.
>
> There are other choices which have much higher approval rate than those
you
> have chosen.
Can you elaborate what these other PMD choices are?
>
> Please come up with more creative solutions, acceptable by 75% voters to
> help all HSSG including Sun to resolve the PMD issue.
the creative way to move forward is to define two low cost variant for
data center applications with 100 m reach, then add the 1300 nm CWDM
to support 300m. The data center market is very significant and will
keep the short-wave people happy help getting more vote.
Thanks,
Ali Ghiasi
Sun Microsystems
>
> Regards,
>
> Edward S. Chang
> NetWorth Technologies, Inc.
> EChang@NetWorthtech.com
> Tel: (610)292-2870
> Fax: (610)292-2872
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org
> [mailto:owner-stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org]On Behalf Of ghiasi
> Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 12:30 PM
> To: stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org; wthirion@jatotech.com;
> SwansonSE@corning.com
> Cc: Ali.Ghiasi@Eng.sun.com
> Subject: RE: Equalization
>
>
>
> Hi Steve
>
> Steve Swanson wrote:
> >
> >
> > Walt,
> >
> > The right ones to include are:
> > 850 Serial
> > 850 CWDM
> > 1310 Serial
> > 1310 CWDM
> > 1550 Serial
>
> I am not sure Steve what criteria you are using to determine the right
ones!
> Specially when you have left the lowest cost parallel optics out.
>
> I certainly can see if you want to support 300m at least on existing
> fiber for the backbone the choices would be:
>
> 1300CWDM
> 1310 Serial
> 1550 Serial
>
> In addition the standard should consider lower cost variants to support
> data center with maximum distance of 100m using standard fibers. A user
> can always implement high bandwidth fiber if he wishes. Below you will
> find suitable link choices for data centers:
>
> Serial 850 - difficult to reach 100m on standard fiber
> 850 CWDM - Too early to judge
> Parallel Optics - Lowest xcvr cost but long cables are expensive
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ali Ghiasi
> Sun Microsystems
>
>
> >
> > The standard could move forward very efficiently - no debate over
> objectives,
> no debate over band-aids, no debate over how many, etc. My recommendation
to
> the
> committee is to support these PMDs in the standard. Individual companies
and
> customers can then decide whether to support all of them, none of them, or
> some
> number in between. The standard sets expectations in the marketplace and
> encumbers noone. All of these PMDs have what I call "a critical level of
> support" on both sides - customers AND vendors. In this case, it is better
> at
> this point in time to include rather than exclude.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Steve
> >
> > > ----------
> > > From: Walter Thirion[SMTP:wthirion@jatotech.com]
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2000 12:35 AM
> > > To: stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org
> > > Subject: RE: Equalization
> > >
> > >
> > > I would really like for us to get away from the 3 PMD vs 5 PMD
> discussion
> > > and determine which PMDs are the right ones to include in the
standard,
> > > whether it's 2, 3, 4, 5 or (hopefully not) "more than 5".
> > >
> > > Walt
> > >
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: NetWorthTK@aol.com [mailto:NetWorthTK@aol.com]
> > > Sent: Friday, July 21, 2000 10:00 PM
> > > To: vipul.bhatt@finisar.com; stds-802-3-hssg@ieee.org
> > > Subject: Re: Equalization
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Vipul:
> > >
> > > It is a good summary. They are all true.
> > >
> > > However, we know all these facts for quite a while, and they are not
new
> to
> > > us.
> > > They are not simple problems to be resolved overnight. It will take
> > > systematic approach and time to solve. I do not expect a miracle in
> > > September to come out all answers -- rush, rush does not produce
> miracle.
> > >
> > > Be practical, solid and smart to approach any problem.
> > >
> > > What I do not understand is why some people have to limit to 3 PMD
only.
> > > There is no justified reason at all to insist 3-PMDs; as a result, the
> 3-PMD
> > >
> > > is forcing us to produce a miracle. GIVE US A BREAK !! A successful
> > > project
> > > is always completed by practical approaches, but not by a miracle.
> > >
> > > We can vote 5 PMDs in, then we can concentrate next whole year to
> resolve
> > > all
> > > those issues -- this is practical, and doable.
> > >
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > >
> > > Ed Chang
> > > NetWorth Technologies, Inc
> > >
> > >
> > > Dear colleagues,
> > >
> > > Okay, so where are we? Let me review what I think I have heard so
> > > far.
> > >
> > > Yes, the idea of 10G Serial on installed MMF is interesting, but
> > > there are a couple of holes in the proposal, including bad timing.
> > > Here is the summary, followed by holes.
> > >
> > > 850 nm Serial solution:
> > > -----------------------
> > > - Will benefit from TIA FO 2.2 Encircled Flux and Restricted Mode
> > > Launch work.
> > > - Offset Launch jumper not required.
> > > - Start with 385 MHz-Km bandwidth assumption on installed MMF.
> > > - Add 6 dB equalization to support 100 meters operation, additional
> > > 9.54 dB to support 300 meters. Equalization has to be adaptive, in
> > > the sense that impulse response will be different for each link. It
> > > must overcome severe DMD in some cases. With Encircled Flux launch,
> > > for a given link, the impulse response will not vary significantly
> > > with time, so it can be assumed as time-invariant or very slowly
> > > varying in time.
> > > - Potentially, end up with a total of 3 PMDs that meet all 5
> > > Objectives.
> > >
> > > 1310 nm Serial solution:
> > > -----------------------
> > > - Will benefit from EMB work done with 802.3z.
> > > - Offset Launch jumper is required.
> > > - Start with 500 MHz-Km bandwidth assumption on installed MMF.
> > > - Add 4 dB equalization to support 100 meters operation, additional
> > > 9.54 dB to support 300 meters. Equalization has to be adaptive in
> > > the sense that impulse response will be different for each link. It
> > > must overcome severe DMD in some cases. With offset launch, for a
> > > given link, the impulse response will not vary significantly with
> > > time, so it can be assumed as time-invariant or very slowly varying>
> > > in time.
> > > - Potentially, end up with a total of 2 PMDs that meet all 5
> > > Objectives.
> > >
> > > List of holes:
> > > -------------
> > >
> > > 1. It hasn't been established that Encircled Flux over a randomly
> > > selected fiber from installed base will ensure 385 MHz-Km bandwidth
> > > (850 nm) with a high degree of statistical confidence. Gair's
> > > suggestion of tagging an RML-compliance condition is one possible
> > > solution. We need to know if that suggestion will be acceptable to
> > > 802.3ae end users and system integrators.
> > >
> > > 2. It hasn't been established that 10G equalization is feasible. By
> > > feasible, I mean something like - a demonstrable solution before the
> > > Working Group Ballot, capable of overcoming severe DMD, consuming
> > > less than 3 watts, with a cost comparable to that of other
> > > components, backed by technical presentations in September that
> > > instill a high degree of confidence in the 802.3ae members.
> > >
> > > 3. Perhaps it is too late. There is a high likelihood that at the
> > > September Interim, motions to adopt other PMDs that meet Objectives
> > > 1 and 2 will pass.
> > >
> > > Hole 1 can be bypassed by adopting a 1310 nm Serial solution. Hole 2
> > > can't be plugged until we have heard presentations from DSP experts
> > > in September. Hole 3 is the most regrettable. I don't know how to
> > > plug it. Jonathan, Walt, do you have any comments or suggestions?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Vipul >>
> > >
>