[EFM] RE: [EFM-Copper] Copper questions for EFM
I would like to comment on the following statements in Hugh's e-mail.
>2. St. Louis copper sub task force
>We spent a lot of time in the copper STF discussing what would happen after
we choose a
>baseline - particularly the choosing of a line code. As a result, there was
a lot of
>division and (though I hate to say it) ill-feeling. Despite all this, we
>baseline proposal by >80%. The rival baseline proposal was rejected by
According to my notes, the voting result for the first baseline proposal in
the copper STF was Y:37, N:10, A:9. This implies that the copper STF passed
the proposal by about 78.7% instead of by >80%. In fact, it was just two
votes away from being rejected. The voting result for the rival baseline
proposal was Y:14, N:32, A:16. This implies that it was rejected by about
69.6% instead of by >80%. Therefore, the two statements made in Hugh's
e-mail on voting results are incorrect.
I think that telling the truth is one of the first few steps to give and get
Dong Wei, Ph.D.
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From: Hugh Barrass [mailto:hbarrass@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Sunday, March 24, 2002 11:18 AM
To: firstname.lastname@example.org; email@example.com
Subject: [EFM-Copper] Copper questions for EFM
Following the St. Louis meeting, we (the whole EFM TF) have some serious
consider regarding the copper effort. Those of you who were at the meeting
that there was much confusion over copper baselines and proposals. A
1. The Raleigh compromise
After much debate & discussion regarding seemingly incompatible goals and
reached a compromise which seemed acceptable to both the "DSL-types" and the
802.3ah would define a single PHY, aimed at short reach, high bandwidth
This definition would be based on VDSL and would preserve the interface
T1E1.4 (alpha/beta) and ITU-T SG15/Q4 (gamma) which would enable other
standards to be
defined in a compatible manner. These would include (but not be limited to)
and the to-be-developed 10MDSL.
As a result, we passed the copper objectives unanimously in the Task Force.
2. St. Louis copper sub task force
We spent a lot of time in the copper STF discussing what would happen after
we choose a
baseline - particularly the choosing of a line code. As a result, there was
a lot of
division and (though I hate to say it) ill-feeling. Despite all this, we
baseline proposal by >80%. The rival baseline proposal was rejected by >80%.
3. St. Louis surprise motion
A motion was introduced in the closing Task Force session which was not on
This motion said, in essence, that we should reject the copper objectives
and replace them with new versions proposed. This motion got >60% support
but failed to
win the 75% it needed to be binding.
The fact that it got a majority (albeit slim) is a major problem for the
copper STF as
it shows that the consensus reached in 1 & 2 above is completely invalid.
4. St. Louis baseline vote
When the copper STF presented their baseline adoption to the main Task Force
proposal got a majority but failed to reach the 75% needed for adoption.
This may be
largely due to the discussion and ensuing confusion following the surprise
The net effect is that the copper STF is without a baseline.
So this leaves us with some questions which need to be addressed by the Task
resolve the copper problems:
A. What do you want the copper STF to do?
This is the big question - do you want the copper STF to disband (meaning
resubmit the PAR for 802.3ah without a copper track)? do you want to restate
objectives (also meaning a resubmission of the PAR to 802.3)? do you want
the copper STF
to choose a different baseline (or to choose in a different manner) which
B. How can we maintain consensus from one meeting to the next?
If we can swing from unanimous support to 60% opposition in 2 months - on
the basis of a
surprise motion, how can we continue with any degree of confidence?
C. When and how must these questions be answered?
Do we need a "final resolution" in May? Can we make such a resolution in an
expect it to hold for the Plenary?
I look forward to any input on this subject. Feel free to send responses to
reflector or to myself privately as appropriate.