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RE: [EFM] AW: HEADLINE: Oscar Wilde resolves EFM PON timing issues!!!



Bruce,
 
I like our discourse, whatever it is becoming. By sending their messages, Geoff is keeping me honest, Tom is keeping me busy, Glen is keeping me amused, and Frank is keeping me well behaved. In the process, if I pick up a literary hint or two, well, I find that refreshing in an otherwise techie existence of mine.:-)
 
Vipul
 
=============
-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Tolley [mailto:btolley@xxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, November 22, 2002 4:21 PM
To: Geoff Thompson; Vipul_Bhatt@xxxxxxxx
Cc: stds-802-3-efm@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [EFM] AW: HEADLINE: Oscar Wilde resolves EFM PON timing issues!!!

Geoff and Thomas

....John Hersey

...Oscar Wilde

....Wendy Kaminer

I must say that despite our passionate debates on optics and copper or perhaps because of, our discourse is certainly becoming more literate if not literary :))

//Bruce



At 02:04 PM 11/22/2002 -0800, Geoff Thompson wrote:
Vipul-

Be careful here. You are confusing two concepts.

        1. Consensus

        2. 75% Approval

Consensus is a soft threshold that means by dictionary means:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=consensus
conĚsenĚsus
   1. An opinion or position reached by a group as a whole: "Among political women... there is a clear consensus about the problems women candidates have traditionally faced" (Wendy Kaminer).
   2. General agreement or accord: government by consensus.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=consensus
Main Entry: conĚsenĚsus
Pronunciation: k&n-'sen(t)-s&s
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: Latin, from consentire
Date: 1858
1 a : general agreement : UNANIMITY <the consensus of their opinion, based on reports... from the border -- John Hersey> b : the judgment arrived at by most of those concerned <the consensus was to go ahead>
2 : group solidarity in sentiment and belief
usage The phrase consensus of opinion, which is not actually redundant (see sense 1a; the sense that takes the phrase is slightly older), has been so often claimed to be a redundancy that many writers avoid it. You are safe in using consensus alone when it is clear you mean consensus of opinion, and most writers in fact do so.
Achieving the required approval threshold and achieving consensus are two entirely different things. If all you do is achieve your vote threshold without achieving consensus you will have (1) an unhappy balloting process (2) a standard that doesn't have broad buy-in. Just getting a standard approved does not guarantee success.

Geoff


At 09:59 AM 11/21/2002 -0800, Vipul Bhatt wrote:

The voting count is documented in slides 16 and 17 of
bhatt_optics_1_1102.pdf at:
http://www.ieee802.org/3/efm/public/nov02/optics/

The results speak for themselves. By definition, whenever we reach
75% consensus on a decision, that will be the right decision. I
think our best hope of getting there is to keep trading more
information about various options. I appreciate Tom's initiative of
starting this thread, and I am also looking forward to hearing
Frank's contribution in Vancouver.

Vipul

ps: I took the liberty of pruning the email list of this thread.

=================


Thomas Murphy wrote:
>
> Frank,
>
> I agree with your assessment that the people on the e-mail
> list have a "Option-A" view. However, at the meeting the voting
> pointed differently.  I am trying to remain neutral on this issue
> but someone please back me up on the way the voting went.
>
<snip>


Bruce Tolley
Senior Manager, Emerging Technologies
Gigabit Systems Business Unit
Cisco Systems
170 West Tasman Drive
MS SJ H2
San Jose, CA 95134-1706
internet: btolley@xxxxxxxxx
ip phone: 408-526-4534