RE: detecting a PD disconnection event
Their application is for theft prevention/security.
I didn't see in the patent, any mention of using the current drop to
control/turn off power, I'm still looking though.
Since we are not involved in network security, as the patent title states,
the patent shouldn't prevent any one from using a series loop current drop
to detect the need to turn off power to a circuit.
Note: The title of the patent is:
Network Security System For Detecting Removal Of Electronic Equipment.
If we stay out of the security business, we may be OK.
Jerry
Gerard E. (Jerry) Bachand
Avaya Inc.
300 Baker Avenue, Suite 100
Concord, MA 01742
(978) 318-6402 Voice
(978) 318-6402 Fax
<gbachand@avaya.com>
Formerly: Enterprise Networks Group
("Cajun" LAN Systems)
of Lucent Technologies
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Moore [mailto:pamoore@nortelnetworks.com]
Sent: Monday, April 30, 2001 12:05 PM
To: Bachand, Jerry
Cc: Rick Brooks; Barry Male; stds-802-3-pwrviamdi@ieee.org
Subject: RE: detecting a PD disconnection event
I believe the claims in the patent are very specific (that's probably why it
was granted). It is for sensing loss of current on a networking cable to
see if something has been disconnected. Unfortunately this is the very
specific case we are working with, so it seem alternative solutions would be
wise.
\Paul
At 12:06 PM 4/27/2001, Bachand, Jerry wrote:
Rick and group,
I still prefer 1a.
Since detecting a minimum current is such a basic and obvious means to
detect a disconnect, I don't think anyone could even think of suing. (Not
even Lucent or Avaya.) ;-)
This means of detecting a disconnect has been in use for over 100yrs by
telephone companies, worldwide, to detect the telephone on-hook condition.
However, I have no problem with other means, as you mentioned, as long as
the minimum current method can still be used.
Please keep in mind, eventually there will be many other devices powered by
the Ethernet, simple might give us more flexibility in the future.
Regards
Jerry
Gerard E. (Jerry) Bachand
Avaya Inc.
300 Baker Avenue, Suite 100
Concord, MA 01742
(978) 318-6402 Voice
(978) 318-6402 Fax
<gbachand@avaya.com>
Formerly: Enterprise Networks Group
("Cajun" LAN Systems)
of Lucent Technologies
-----Original Message-----
From: Rick Brooks [ mailto:ribrooks@nortelnetworks.com
<mailto:ribrooks@nortelnetworks.com> ]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 1:40 PM
To: Barry Male
Cc: stds-802-3-pwrviamdi@ieee.org
Subject: RE: detecting a PD disconnection event
Barry,
1a) was all of our favorites until Geoff's recent email regarding a patent
issue.
It may turn out that other methods are more cost effective when considered
globally.
My proposal is that more than one method could be used, not just the one
that we have been assuming.
My view is that we must at least consider alternative methods that do not
use DC current sensing.
thanks,
- Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Barry Male [SMTP:male@mail-nh.eng.utr.ti.com]
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2001 10:29 AM
To: Brooks, Rick [SC5:321:EXCH]
Cc: stds-802-3-pwrviamdi@ieee.org
Subject: Re: detecting a PD disconnection event
Rick,
My preference is 1a.
Have the PSE disconnect if the AVERAGE value of load current is less
than
10mA for a sample period of some time (say 100mSec)
This averaging produces a robust detection method from the
standpoint of
system noise.
Thanks
Barry
_________________________________________________________________
Barry Male
Senior Principal IC Designer Internet: barry_male@ti.com
Power Management Products NH Phone: 603.429.8705
Texas Instruments CT Phone: 860.844.8183
7 Continental Blvd. NH FAX : 603.424.3460
Merrimack, NH 03054-0399 USA CT FAX : 860.844.8806
On Fri, 27 Apr 2001, Rick Brooks wrote:
> Just to start up another discussion, I wanted to find out how many
people
> would support
> the following concept for detecting when a PD receiving power becomes
> disconnected.
>
> the concept:
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
> 1) The PSE is responsible for detecting when a PD receiving DTE power
> becomes disconnected.
> If that event occurs, the PSE must turn off the power within some time
frame
> (100ms to 500ms ballpark?)
>
> 2) The PSE may use any of the following methods to detect this PD
disconnect
> event.
>
> a) the DC load current drop below "X" ma (10ma?)
>
> b) the ethernet link has dropped out
>
> c) another proven method (pending discussion and feasibility proof)
> some suggestions:
> 1) the AC probing circuit detects when the AC load changes
> (opens)
> 2) the PD modulation heartbeat current ceases
> 3) the PD response to a given PSE code is wrong or absent
> 4) other ideas
>
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
>
> Please voice your opinions on this concept.
> The motivation here is to lower the cost of delivering DTE power.
>
> thanks,
> - Rick
>
>