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Geoff, let me take your issue to a logical
extension. If one working group decides that they need to go on a diet,
and therefore choose not to partake of a cookie break, then we should withdraw
802 funds for cookies because not all groups are taking advantage of
it.
Geoff, I know the above example is overly
simplistic. It is because I believe your note also is overly
simplistic. The real issue here is: How do we address the situation where
a service is offered to all groups and not all groups choose to
participate? Yuor simply stated reply ignored that complexity. If
you feel that my wording does not accurately state your case for the upcoming
interim, please state clearly what the major issue is in context, and then
address it.
Ther is a second issue. When the 802 treasury
can provide financial backing without being used, although with some
acknowledged risk, should we have any different rules for this case. My
first thoughts are that financial risk is reason enough to lump this case with
the previous one, and not use relaxed rules for it.
Best regards,
Robert D. Love President, LAN Connect Consultants 7105 Leveret
Circle Raleigh, NC 27615 Phone: 919
848-6773 Mobile: 919 810-7816 email: rdlove@ieee.org
Fax: 720 222-0900
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2000 7:42
PM
Subject: RE: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim
Meeting Agreement
Buzz
What I believe Bob is saying and what I am saying
is that to use 802 funds for the benefit of a few working groups for
activities outside the Plenary is something I will not support.
It's
that simple.
Geoff
At 04:38 PM 12/5/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O
wrote:
OK Bob, So what you and Geoff are saying
is that unless every WG in 802
chooses to participate in an 802-Hosted
interim, it's not possible to hold one.
If this is your firm and
unalterable position on the matter, then we probably
ought to bag this
notion entirely because it's not possible to plan anything on
that
basis. There will always be some WG that has a legitimate reason for
wanting to meet separately. My personal view is along the same
lines as
Bob Love's. That all groups are invited to participate,
to help choose the
week, and if they instead choose to seek a separately
hosted meeting, that
should not prevent the other WG's from
participating in an 802-hosted interim.
Every group would have a
fair and equal chance and they get to choose
their preference.
They can opt in or opt out, but I don't think they should
have the right
to spoil it for all the groups that do want to participate.
That
seems really unfair to me !!! :-)
As soon as we
have a WG that doesn't want/need to hold interim meetings
we're
finished. So why even bother ???
Thanx, Buzz
Everett O.
(Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA
98124-2207
ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721
email:
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
> From:
Grow,
Bob[SMTP:bob.grow@intel.com]
> Sent:
Tuesday,
December 05, 2000 9:17 AM
> To: 'Geoff
Thompson'; Rigsbee, Everett O
> Cc:
stds-802-sec; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F Darcel
Moro
> Subject: RE: FW:
+++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> Geoff's conclusion that I
expressed an equivalent objection is correct. The
> fairness
issue is fundamental to my concern on how this has evolved.
Use
> of the good faith and credit of the 802 treasury is something
that has been
> denied for interim meetings in the past and in the
current plan is inequitably applied.
> --Bob
> From: Geoff
Thompson [mailto:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
> Sent:
Monday, December 04, 2000 3:03 PM
> To: Rigsbee, Everett O
> Cc:
stds-802-sec; 802 @F2F Dawn S; 802 @F2F Darcel Moro
> Subject: RE: FW:
+++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting Agreement
> Buzz-
> I do understand
that the PLAN is to net zero.
> However, according to the motion, the
802 treasury is standing behind the
> Orlando meeting to the tune
of
> 1)
Guaranteeing that it will
happen.
> 2)
Covering any
shortfall
> 3)
??
> It is not providing the same for other meetings.
> That is
not equitable and is to the disadvantage of the roughly half of the
>
802 membership who depend on me to represent them.
> I believe that
this is in line with the point that Bob Grow made earlier.
>
Geoff
> At 11:36 AM 12/4/00 -0800, Rigsbee, Everett O
wrote: >>Geoff, I think you are misunderstanding the
proposal. All of the expenses
>>for the Orlando meeting are
being paid by the meeting fees collected from
>>the attendees (just
as we do at a plenary meeting). The plan is to tailor
>>the
>>expenses at the meeting to come out with net
balance of $0. Thus there
>>will be no impact on IEEE 802
treasury. The only role being played by
>>IEEE 802 is to serve
as the hosting body to make the meeting arrangements
>>and
ensure that the Hotel agreement conforms to our stand policies.
The
>>meeting fees collected from the attendees will cover all of the
actual
>>expenses.
>>It is possible to track and adjust
expenses during the meeting so that they
>>exactly match the funds
collected. It is NOT the case that the 802
>
Treasury
>>is subsidizing one meeting and not the
other.
>>Thanx, Buzz
>>Everett O. (Buzz)
Rigsbee
>>Boeing SSG
>>PO Box 3707, M/S:
7M-FM
>>Seattle, WA 98124-2207
>>ph: (425) 865-2443,
fx: (425) 865-6721
>>email:
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com
>>> ----------
>>>
From: Geoff
Thompson[SMTP:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
>>>
Sent: Saturday, December 02,
2000 3:03 PM
>>> To: jcarlo
>>>
Cc: IEEE802>
>>>
Subject: Re: FW: +++ BALLOT: Interim Meeting
Agreement
>>>
>>> In the current form I vote
DISAPPROVE
>>> I cannot support such a discriminatory allocation
of funds, i.e. to the
>>> group consisting of
>>>
802.11
>>> 802.15
>>> 802.16
>>> and
excluding
>>> 802.1
>>> 802.3
>>>
802.17
>>> If a more equitable arrangement is offered I would be
more inclined to
>>> support it.
>>>
Geoff
>>> At 04:39 PM 12/1/00 -0600, Jim Carlo
wrote:
>>>>UPDATED STATUS: NOTE CURRENT MOTION WOULD PASS -
PLEASE VOTE
>>>>Howard Frazier -
>>>>Bob Grow
-
>>>>Paul Nikolich - Approve
>>>>Buzz Rigsbee -
Approve
>>>>Vic Hayes - Approve with
Comment
>>>>Tony Jeffree - Approve
>>>>Geoff
Thompson -
>>>>Bob Love - Do Not
Approve
>>>>Stuart Kerry - Approve
>>>>Bob Heile
- Approve
>>>>Roger Marks - Approve
>>>>Jim
Carlo - Chair
>>>>Stuart Kerry, who is here with me at the
moment in the Netherlands has also
>>>>approved this motion.
After the November 2000 motion the original wireless
>>>>hosts
for dot11, dot15 and dot16 (ParkerVision and Intersil) have not
moved
>>>>forward with hotel and meeting facilities because
they were convinced that
>>>>802 was taking care of the
organization and liability issues. Vic Hayes
>>>>I vote
conditionally approve based on 802.17 being added to the list
of
>>>>working groups to meet in Orlando. Otherwise I
must vote NO. This motion
>>>>failed to capture the
spirit of the email discussion that directly
preceeded
>>>>it. The previous e-mail suggests that
802.17 prefers Orlando to Sacramento,
>>>>directily
contradicting Note 3. Will all those that have already voted
in
>>>>support of this motion please send an e-mail to the
reflector stating that
>>>>you support my requested change?
Thank you. Bob Love
>>>>SEC OFFICIAL EMAIL BALLOT
802.0/29Nov2000
>>>>Issue Date: 29Nov2000 Closing Date:
3Dec2000
>>>>Moved By: Buzz Rigsbee
>>>>Move:
Approve that IEEE 802 financially back-up the commitment for
the
>>>>following Working Groups to hold their interim meeting
in Orlando on
>>>>14-18May. The plan is this meeting will run
on a break even financial
basis.
>>>>802.11
>>>>802.15
>>>>802.16
>>>>Notes:
>>>>1)
802.11, 802.15, 802.16 are committed to attend this
meeting.
>>>>2) Bob Grow an I will need to have a financial
report of this interim
>>>>meeting, to be prepared and
presented at the SEC in July. Will work out the
>>>>details in
March.
>>>>3) This note is not part of the motion, and outside
the scope of 802 SEC.
>>>>However, 802.3, 802.1, 802.17
currently plan to hold a separate meeting,
>>>>hosted by Intel
in Sacramento during the week of May 28 - June 1. Note
>>
that
>>>>this is Memorial Day weekend. Note also that this
motion does not have any
>>>>commitment on this meetings, just
a possible plan, that might and probably
>>>>will
change.
>>>>Jim Carlo(jcarlo@ti.com) Cellular:1-214-693-1776
>> Voice&Fax:1-214-853-5274>
>>>>TI Fellow,
Networking Standards at Texas Instruments
>>>>Vice Chair,
IEEE-SA Standards Board
>>>>Chair, IEEE802 LAN/MAN Standards
Committee
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