Final Agenda for the 990412 meeting
Bob Stewart, the founder of the MSC and of most of the Computer Society's standards of the sort we work on, and many others too, was present for the first time in several years. He talked about some of the standards we've worked on, and their influence in the industry.
Our biggest success was 754 (Floating Point), of course. Bob also started the (perhaps even bigger, but not MSC's) 802 (Ethernet) project, getting Maris Graube of Tektronix involved in it. It took a year and a half to get going, but has done a lot since then!
Martin Freeman pointed out that 754 was really the enabler for Engineering Workstations.
Stewart commented that we have put enormous effort into bus standards, but they have each had a relatively short life.
Dick Karpinski said that we need a new User Interface standard, one that is much more humane, modeless. Martin mentioned a tiny handheld with Linux in it. Dick referred to Squeak, a SmallTalk from Disney.
There are several consortia working on standards for wireless networks: Bluetooth, 802.11, Open Home, and another home RF group.
Steve Diamond, former MSC chair and Standards Board member, now Standards Association governor and Computer Society VP of Standards, arrived; this was his first visit for many meetings. Perhaps a good omen for our new meeting location, that we got Stewart and Diamond to attend?
The minutes of the last meeting were approved (moved by Don Wright, seconded by Dick Karpinski, no objections).
Vice Chair: Nothing new this period.
Treasurer: $5608 in account, but everything over about $1000 is due to be sent to the IEEE for payment of International Participation Fees.
Steve Diamond recalled the painful history of the separation of the BASC (Bus Architecture Standards Committee) from the MSC, back during the peak of Futurebus activity.
Time has passed, the FutureBus standards are no longer being supported, and the BASC has reduced its activity dramatically over the past 2 years. Some working groups are no longer active, but there are some standards that need to be owned by an active organization in order to handle maintenance. Steve has discussed this with BASC chair Joe George, and wondered if the MSC would be willing to take on this work, merging it back into our organization. There are some mechanical standards, Futurebus-related work, and VME 1014. Steve asked us to take an official position on this.
Bob Davis moved and Dick Karpinski seconded, that we merge BASC standards and responsibilities into MSC, if this is offered to us. The motion passed with no objections.
This matter will be considered by the SAB (Standards Activities Board) at some future meeting. Our motion only indicates that we are willing to cooperate with the SAB and BASC if this is the wish of the SAB.
Karpinski: There is still a problem with distribution of drafts. The IEEE is making them harder to get, restricting access to working group members etc. Note that the SAB is part of the Computer Society, but the copyright is held by the IEEE. So the SAB might favor easing access restrictions, but be overruled by the IEEE.
Standards are also too hard to get. In order to be used, they have to be freely available on the Web. People are rarely going to buy a standard just in order to look at it. Every impediment to reading the standards we create reduces their utility and reduces the chance they will be used. Engineers prefer to reinvent in any case, and unavailability of the standards gives them more excuse.
The problem, of course, is that the IEEE standards staff needs to get paid, and they rely on standards sales for income.
Perhaps we should do an experiment, making the MSC standards available freely, to see whether this does in fact reduce sales. It might significantly increase sales, because people usually don't want to print out a book themselves when one is available, and hard copy is usually needed. So if easy access gets more people reading and using standards, sales of printed copies should increase, increasing income for the Standards department. Steve suggested that Gustavson contact Judy Gorman to see if this could be done as an experiment.
Edwin Vivian El-Kareh pointed out that the catalogs list titles and prices, and titles are not nearly enough information to decide whether a standard is relevant or useful. He was editor of a standard, and wanted to reference other IEEE standards if appropriate ones existed, and it was impossible. The staff couldn't help, abstracts are not enough, even if online. One needs at least the abstract, table of contents, and the introductory chapter to be freely accessible.
The IEEE does sell online access to standards, but in the case of the MSC standards at least, it is hard to imagine that anyone would buy at the prices asked. The standards in this collection are so diverse that few individuals would want more than a few of them, in which case it would be far cheaper to buy those outright. I.e., they are not grouped and priced intelligently. Perhaps libraries would buy access to the entire standards collection instead.
But we are asking for a policy change here. Don't we have to start with the Board of Governors in order to change policy? They control staff activities through setting policy. Steve suggested working bottom up, through staff first, as being a more profitable approach. Do some experiments, report to Board.
The Board of Governors is concerned about the growing movement toward standards being set by dominant companies, and by consortia, instead of by open standards organizations like the IEEE. For this reason, the ISTO has been formed, to provide a ready-made IEEE-based consortium shell for groups that wish to operate in that way. Companies must support the consortium, the consortium provides staff and services.
Karpinski reported that we have reached a new milestone: it is now 1000x cheaper to publish on hard disk than on paper!
We need to resubmit P1537, Electronic Data Sheet, to the IEEE.
1178 SCHEME is Lisp-like. Needs reaffirming. Sussman at MIT? Chris Haynes? Scheme is now used at Berkeley in CS.
1394a is ready for second ballot. 1394 Serial Bus needs reaffirmation. Moved by Dick Scheel, seconded by Bob Davis, no objections.
1284R met in Miami in March, updated draft coming in about 2 weeks. Staff was unable to provide the original document in any electronic format!
Bob Ferguson commented that we need to report this to the Board, someone needs to know that this isn't working.
Edwin Vivian El-Kareh asked what happens to the copyright if a standard dies. We think it remains with the IEEE, and if interest later increases the IEEE would publish copies on demand.
None
Our next meeting will be at a new location in the Bay Area, on July 12, 1999.