Re: [ieee] RE: Hand Recounts of votes recorded on DREs

[Cem Kaner <kaner@xxxxxxxxx>]

Take a read of http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2004/986

The difficulties, political and technological, in achieving a recount
in this election are serving to discredit the election.

The point of HAVA was to stem the growing tide of voter mistrust of
voting technology. Instead, we are preparing to publish a standard that
blesses equipment that will perpetuate or exacerbate the problems.

On Dec 13, 2004, at 10:54 AM, Andrew Berg wrote:

> (Sorry all, I just can't help myself.)
>
> I consider myself neither particularly "obsessed" nor PARANOID, but the
> accountant to whom I turn in expense reports seems to be both.
>
> :)
>
> -andrew
>
> On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 16:13:20 -0700, Pete Klammer <pklammer@comcast.net>
> wrote:
>
>> You "had to go inside to get a receipt" ???
>>
>> Why, were you "obsessed" with paper documentation?  Did you not fully
>> trust
>> a paperless transaction for a mere tankful of gas???  What are you,
>> PARANOID?
>>
>> --
>> Pete Klammer, P.E. / ACM(1970), IEEE(SA,P1583), ICCP(CCP), NSPE(PE)
>>    3200 Routt Street / Wheat Ridge, Colorado 80033-5452
>>  (303)233-9485 / Fax:(303)274-6182 / Mailto:PKlammer@ACM.org
>>    "Either Be Good, or Else Be Careful, but Do Have Fun! "
>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Vern Williams [mailto:vernonw74@earthlink.net]
>>> Sent: Friday, December 10, 2004 11:20 AM
>>> To: Arthur Keller
>>> Cc: williamsv@saic.com; Stanley A. Klein; Andrew Berg;
>>> Hogzett, Robert; 'Barbara Simons'; pklammer@acm.org;
>>> stds-1583-stg3@ieee.org; stds-1583-disc@ieee.org;
>>> stds-1583-tg1@ieee.org; stds-1583-tg2@ieee.org
>>> Subject: Re: [ieee] RE: Hand Recounts of votes recorded on DREs
>>>
>>> One of the differences that you did not address is the 22 month
>>> retention requirement and the handling required to look at the paper
>>> record and then cancel it and vote again if you did not select the
>>> correct candidate the first time.  Additionally, ATMs are in constant
>>> use, not put away for 2 years between uses.  I have had to go to a
>>> different ATM several (~5 times that I can specifically
>>> remember) times
>>> due to one not working.  I do not know if it was out of ink, paper or
>>> money, but it was not available to use.  Additionally, the receipt
>>> printer at Gas stations have reliability problems as well and
>>> I have had
>>> to go inside many times to get a receipt.
>>> R/ Vern
>>>
>>>
>>> Arthur Keller wrote:
>>>
>>> > Does someone know how often ATMs go down because their
>>> printers don't
>>> > work.  Putting a new ink cartridge at the start of an
>>> election should
>>> > solve most of those problems.
>>> >
>>> > Best regards,
>>> > Arthur
>>> >
>>> > At 11:16 AM -0600 12/10/04, Vern Williams wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Stan,
>>> >> I think you need a reality check.  The most failure prone
>>> component of
>>> >> the "paper trail" system you seem so obsessed with is the
>>> printer with
>>> >> it's mechanical parts and ink delivery system.  You state
>>> many of your
>>> >> pet opinions as fact which is far from true.
>>> >
>>> > <snip>
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Quote of the week...
>>>
>>> "Posterity -- you will never know how much it has cost my
>>> generation to
>>> preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it."
>>>
>>>   --John Quincy Adams
>>>
>>>
>>> Vern Williams, CISSP ISSEP CBCP CHSP IAM
>>> Senior Security Engineer / Analyst, SAIC
>>> Senior Member, IEEE
>>> Vernon.C.Williams@SAIC.com
>>> Cell: 512-635-5315
>>>
>>> Any comments are my opinion and not the official position of SAIC.
>>> This email and any attachments thereto may contain private,
>>> confidential, and privileged material for the sole use of the
>>> intended
>>> recipient. Any review, copying, or distribution of this email (or any
>>> attachments thereto) by others is strictly prohibited. If you are not
>>> the intended recipient, please contact the sender immediately and
>>> permanently delete the original and any copies of this email and any
>>> attachments thereto.
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> --
> andrewb@votehere.com
>
>
Cem Kaner, Professor of Software Engineering
Director, Center for Software Testing Education & Research
Florida Institute of Technology, 150 West University Blvd., Melbourne,
FL 32901.
http://www.kaner.com, http://www.testingeducation.org,
http://www.badsoftware.com
Senior author of
        Lessons Learned in Software Testing
        Testing Computer Software, and
        Bad Software: What to Do When Software Fails.