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SUO: RE: Discussion Period on Motion by Matthew West




Dear Jon,

See comments to you.


Matthew West
Principal Consultant
Shell Information Technology International Limited
Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom

Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Other Tel: +44 7796 336538
Email: matthew.west@shell.com
Internet: http://www.shell.com


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jon Awbrey [mailto:jawbrey@att.net]
> Sent: 03 September 2003 03:59
> To: West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE
> Cc: SUO
> Subject: Re: Discussion Period on Motion by Matthew West
> 
> 
> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> 
> JA = Jon Awbrey
> MW = Matthew West
> 
> 
> JA: So I think I have a way of understanding the statement that
>     a state is just a complex property of a system.  Some people
>     will call that system-thing the "reified system".
> 
> MW: It is that which takes on the state.
> 
> JA: Yes, the picky point that I think some people are trying
>     to make is that the data of experience or the results of
>     measurement are what we really have on hand, whereas the
>     system-thing is in the bush, as it were, at some remove
>     from immediate impressions, the object of possibly many
>     competing hypotheses that we form to explain why the
>     data are as they are.
> 
> MW: I'm not one of them, as you have probably guessed.
>     As noted below you can have any individual object
>     you want as long as you can demonstrate it has
>     a spatio-temporal extent.
> 
> Yes, I have no qualms about pretending a hypothesis here and there,
> but the question is whether the specifics of a given hypothesis
> explain the data better than the many competing alternatives.
> This is a stricter test than demonstrating mere consistency
> or the projection of a possible extension in space and time.
> 
> Morever, data can vary widely with changes among different bases
> or frames of reference, whereas real objects are associated with
> functions that remain invariant through transformations from one
> frame to another, so it is a non-trivial step to relate the data
> to the object.

MW: You seem to have some idea that there are some "real" objects.
What do you consider these to be?
> 
> MW: I have just generated a PDF V1.3 version of the document,
>     complete with bookmarks for the TOC.  Try that.  If it
>     still doesn't work I can e-mail it or a Word document.
> 
> Even when I save the pdf file to disk, the reader says it is 
> corrupted.
> If you could send a Word doc, I could probably read that.  
> Thanks, Jon.
> 
> o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o~~~~~~~~~o
> 
>