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Re: P&P: RE: How votes are counted



Title:
Jay,
The Chair was in fact directed by IEEE-SA to announce that the first SUMO vote failed. This was the result of a motion that was unanimously passed by the IEEE-SA Board of Governors that specifically addressed how votes are counted in the SUO WG. After nearly a year in which the Chair refused to do so, the IEEE-SA instructed the Chair that if he did not clearly state that the vote failed he would be removed as Chair. He did state that the vote failed.

The IFF vote was not challenged. 

The result of the second SUMO vote was also challenged (by me).  By challenged I mean that I asserted that properly counting the votes resulted in the failure of the motion.  I pointed out to the Chair (and the SUO) the proper method by which they should be counted both before and after the vote was taken. 

Bob



Jay Halcomb wrote:
Two problems with the remarks below.
 
1) Those previous votes spoken of below (SUMO, IFF?) didn't fail, but were ruled to have passed by the Chair. I don't know that the Chair has, in fact, been over-ruled. Also, note that the e-mails from the Chair regarding these earlier votes specified a 'more restrictive' voting method than the IEEE method.
 
2) If it should be determined that an invalid voting procedure has in fact been used previously, then all votes conducted under that procedure must be deemed invalid, and votes reconducted under a valid procedure.
 
Jay
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2004 06:06
Subject: RE: P&P: RE: How votes are counted

Dear Bob,
 
In not including failed votes in the list of resolutions, I was following the precedence of the ISO committee I am associated with, ISO TC184/SC4.
 
We could choose to do something different, but I think the approach is sound. A failed vote means nothing. It is only passed votes that have significance. The record of failed votes is there in the archives for those who are interested.
 

Matthew West
Principal Consultant
Shell Information Technology International Limited
Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom

Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
Email: matthew.west@shell.com
Internet: http://www.shell.com
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Spillers [mailto:skydog@pacbell.net]
Sent: 19 January 2004 21:22
To: West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE
Cc: jim.s3@juno.com; P&P
Subject: Re: P&P: RE: How votes are counted

Matthew,
In the section of the SUO web page titled Resolutions, I think it is appropriate to list all of the motions that have resulted in a vote including those that have failed.  This gives a better perspective of the WG's activities.  Two SUMO motions have failed - the original one and the one offered last summer.

Bob

West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE wrote:
Dear Bob and Jim,
 
Well I've had a look at this and it seems reasonably clear to me that the By-Law below applies to us and so we require a majority of voting members for a motion to pass.
 
As I recall Jim's objection to this is that no other committee votes in this way. However, I suspect we are the only committee that works entirely by e-mail, and that is what causes the difference (except when other committees have a letter ballot).
 
I should perhaps make my own position clear. I am relatively indifferent as to which voting process we use as a matter of principle. My experience is that people adapt their behaviour to make a voting process work reasonably. However, what I am concerned about is that there should be uncertainty about how votes are counted. Then people do not know what the effects of their behaviour will be.
 
So Jim, do you accept that our voting is governed by the By-Law quoted below? If not please give a rationale.
 
Also, if you do not, what action do I have to take to challenge your decision so that we can get this sorted out?
 
If we accept this process below, then looking back the SUMO - and I suspect the IFF vote would have failed (though the numbers of voting members were not declared in the published ballot result). What do we do about those votes?
 

Matthew West
Principal Consultant
Shell Information Technology International Limited
Shell Centre, London SE1 7NA, United Kingdom

Tel: +44 20 7934 4490 Mobile: +44 7796 336538
Email: matthew.west@shell.com
Internet: http://www.shell.com
http://www.matthew-west.org.uk

-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Spillers [mailto:skydog@pacbell.net]
Sent: 16 January 2004 20:52
To: West, Matthew R SITI-ITPSIE
Cc: jim.s3@juno.com; P&P
Subject: How votes are counted

Matthew,
I spoke to a member of the IEEE -SA staff  who confirmed that in our case (a vote without a meeting, e.g. e-mail) an affirmative vote of a majotity of all the voting members is required.  The reference is the IEEE By-Laws, 1-300 Management, 1-300  General, 1. Governance; Parliamentary Procedures
,
4. Action of the Board of Directors and Committees. (4) below:

(4)   Unless otherwise provided in the Certificate of Incorporation, the Constitution, these Bylaws, or the Not-for-Profit Corporation Law of the State of New York, any action required or permitted to be taken by any board or committee of any organizational unit of the IEEE (other than the Board of Directors, the Executive Committee, the Major Boards, the Standing Committees and any other board or committee reporting directly to the Board of Directors) may be taken without a meeting. Unless a more restrictive voting requirement is specified in the governing documents of the board or committee, an affirmative vote of a majority of all the voting members of the board or committee shall be required to approve the action.  The results of the vote shall be confirmed promptly in writing or by electronic transmission. The writings and/or electronic transmissions shall be filed with the minutes of the proceedings of the board or committee.  ?Electronic transmission? means any form of electronic communication, such as e-mail, not directly involving the physical transmission of paper, that creates a record that may be retained, retrieved and reviewed by a recipient thereof, and that may be directly reproduced in paper form by such a recipient.

The IEEE By-Laws can be viewed at
http://www.ieee.org/portal/index.jsp?pageID=corp_level1&path=about/whatis/bylaws&file=i-300.xml&xsl=generic.xsl

It is clear that the SUMO vote failed.

Bob