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Re: the "set paradigm" is harmful



George,

You make some good points.

Baker

On 2/10/2009 11:50 AM, Corliss, George wrote:
Friends,

A standard will be successful in the long run if it is adopted and embraced by commercial enterprises.  One purpose of the standard is to increase the probability of systems from various manufacturers working in the same way, at least as far as applications developers need to know.  Our common goal is to see people practicing reliable computing.  That is much more likely to happen if at least come vendors see it as a way to make money. Hence, any standard is as much a business document as an academic one.

An interval standard that spells out the core of current accepted practice MIGHT be successful by my adoption metric.

An interval standard of perfect academic beauty, completeness, and including every variant is GUARANTEED to fail by that metric.

No one is saying that a [inf, sup] standard prevents anyone from doing mid-rad or Taylor models any more than 754 prevents anyone from doing variable precision.

KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Dr. George F. Corliss
Electrical&  Computer Engineering
Haggerty Engineering #296
Marquette University
P.O. Box 1881
1515 W. Wisconsin Ave.
Milwaukee WI 53201-1881
George.Corliss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
414-288-6599; -288-4400 (GasDay); -288-5579 (Fax)
Www.eng.mu.edu/corlissg



On 2/10/09 8:44 AM, "Dan Zuras Intervals"<intervals08@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>  wrote:

        Baker&  co,

         I realize you are doing part of your due diligence as chairman
         to suggest this motion but I must say that I would resist such
         a motion.

         I have not commented yet because far better qualified people
         have been making the case against this.  But the simple fact
         is that midpoint-radius representations are not equivalent to
         or interchangable with inf-sup representations.

         There is no problem with specifying conversions to&  from the
         midpoint-radius representation but to have some implementations
         use it for calculations&  others use inf-sup representations
         would be inconsistent with our overall goal of assured
         computation.

         (If it comes to it I can make the case for that claim in a
         later note.)

         I believe that what Svetoslav wants is a laudable goal but
         involves different principles than we are trying to lay down
         here.

         While he may not believe it at the moment, I believe that
         Svetoslav will be able to do useful work with intervals as
         we will end up defining them.

         Let's let that process play out&  see...


                                 Dan

Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 07:43:01 -0600
From: Ralph Baker Kearfott<rbk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
CC: stds-1788@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: the "set paradigm" is harmful

Svetoslav et al,

I see several possibilities of accommodating midpoint-radius
representations in the standard.  One might be to simply
specify two representations for intervals, and specify
conversion between the two.  (That might be the simplest way.)
Does anyone care to make a formal motion to that effect?
If such a motion passes, we can then work out details.

There is another representation of intervals in use to avoid
having to change the rounding mode: [-inf,sup].  However, we
may be able to accommodate that representation within the [inf,sup]
representation by "as if" wording.

Baker

P.S. I'm not sure in exactly what places, if any, the issue of accommodating
       midpoint-radius impacts the two motions currently being
       formally processed. (P1788/M0001.01_StandardizedNotation and
       P1788/M0002.01_ProcessStructure)  The first deals with the
       notation to be used in the standards document and the second deals
       with the structure of the standards document (and not its actual
       content).  If there is anything within these motions that
       impacts midpoint-radius, please be VERY specific about where.





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R. Baker Kearfott,    rbk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx   (337) 482-5346 (fax)
(337) 482-5270 (work)                     (337) 993-1827 (home)
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Department of Mathematics, University of Louisiana at Lafayette
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