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Re: [STDS-1788]: Another philosophy concerning unbounded intervals



> Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2009 05:37:33 -0500
> From: Ralph Baker Kearfott <rbk@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: stds-1788 <stds-1788@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [STDS-1788]: Another philosophy concerning unbounded intervals
> 
> 
> P-1788 participants,
> 
> I attach a paper that espouses a different philosophy concerning
> dealing with unbounded intervals.  I do not propose it as a
> particular stand we should take, but supply it mainly as background
> material.  However, it does supply a specification for how
> 0 * \infty should be defined, along with a reasoned argument.
> (Also, the concept of \infty is redefined here, as "grossone.")
> I hope this isn't too much of a red herring.  In any case, I found
> it entertaining reading while over the North Pole last week.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Baker

	Baker,

	You're right.  It IS entertaining.

	If I may be permitted a critique based on a quick read of the
	paper, it appears to be a number system based on (finite)
	polynomials, P(omega), with coefficients in the reals & an
	indefinite that is allowed to take a formal value that is
	considered to be roughly equivalent to aleph0.

	Near the end he seems to reject some uses of the axiom of
	choice but that doesn't matter much & it helps him to consider
	elements such as grossone/2 (but not grossone/pi).

	Such things have been considered in the past.  Even on computers.

	Indeed, in 1992 Prof Sussman at MIT & I briefly toyed with a
	system of the form r + r*eps (where eps was an infinitesimal)
	for the purpose of natural computation of derivatives in Scheme
	along the lines of Leibnitz.  It worked a bit but had problems
	with l'Hospital for obvious reasons.  Then Gerry figured out how
	to create the D operator as a functional that takes any function
	& returns the function which computes its derivative.  He & Jack
	Wisdom went on to create their classical mechanics system from
	that.

	Such things can work but I should point out some difficulties
	in realizing them on computers.

	Roundoff error can be a bitch.  If I have two floating point
	numbers f >> g such that f + g = f then there is a danger of
	making an infinite error in that:

	g*omega + 4 = (g*omega + 1) + ((f*omega + 5) - (f*omega + 2))
		  != ((g*omega + 1) + (f*omega + 5)) - (f*omega + 2) = 4

	While this approach to infinites is pretty much independent of
	intervals, I can see that one might want to consider polynomials
	with interval coefficients & an infinite indefinite.

	In such a case the above problem would be replaced with result
	intervals of formally infinite width.

	I don't know if that's good or bad.  You guys can answer that
	question better than I can.

	But as it is something that could be built upon the edifice of
	WHATEVER interval model we choose I suspect it could be done
	without much consideration on our part.

	As usual, your mileage may vary.

	In this case, by a possibly infinite amount. :-)

	Enjoy,

				   Dan