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Hi Sujan,We probably need to give Natalie more specific editing instructions for these comments. I would be happy to work with you and anyone else to create these editing instructions.RagnarOn Fri, Sep 11, 2026 at 1:07 PM Sujan Pandey <sujanpandey1021@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Hi Ragnar,I did not join the last ad-hoc call and I am happy that you sent out this email and came to my attention.I submitted that comment about data mode (SEND_N) but I didn't mean to replace all the "normal operation" throughout the draft as far as my proposed remedy is concerned. Maybe that was a misunderstanding. What I did mean in my comment is that in the draft I found there are expressions as "normal operation" in many other places, which contradict with page 81 line 16, 17, and 25. And we need to change only on page 81 line 16, 17, and 25. Other places I believe we need to keep the term "normal operation" as it is.I hope I made it clear here.Kind regards,SujanOn Fri, Sep 11, 2026 at 2:37 PM Ragnar Jonsson <ragnar.jonsson@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:Dear Colleagues,
Before the 802.3dm Interim meeting on September 8, I requested that Comments #66, #67, and #68 be pulled from the EZ bucket. These comments propose a blanket replacement of the term "normal operation" with "data mode (SEND_N)" throughout the draft. I mentioned during the meeting that I had concerns about unintended consequences with this replacement, and I promised to provide more information to the reflector.
While I fully agree with the commenters that the term "normal operation" is somewhat ambiguous and can certainly be improved, a blanket search-and-replace to "data mode (SEND_N)" is problematic and introduces several technical contradictions into the draft.
Here are five specific examples where substituting "data mode (SEND_N)" breaks the text or creates technical ambiguity:
1. Fault Recovery (e.g., 191.12.3 & 192.8.2)
The draft currently states: "Normal operation shall resume after the short circuit(s) is (are) removed."
If changed to "Data mode (SEND_N) shall resume...", the text implies that the PHY jumps straight back to transmitting high-speed payload data after a fault clears. In reality, a short circuit drops the link, meaning the PHY must go through Auto-Negotiation,SEND_S, andSEND_Tbefore it can ever reachSEND_Nagain.2. Transmitter Peak Output Limits (191.6.2.7)
The draft states: "In test mode 5 (normal operation), the transmit signal... shall be less than the peak-to-peak limits... These limits apply to all transmitted symbol sequences, including SEND_S, SEND_T, and SEND_N."
If Test Mode 5 is redefined to mean strictly "data mode (SEND_N)", it creates a logical contradiction. We cannot verify the peak output voltage ofSEND_SandSEND_Tusing Test Mode 5 if Test Mode 5 is explicitly restricted to only theSEND_Nstate.3. Test Mode Electrical Integrity (e.g., 191.7.1 and PICS)
The draft states that test modes do not alter the electrical and jitter characteristics of the transmitter "from those of normal operation."
If changed to "from those of data mode (SEND_N)", it implies that test modes only need to emulate the electrical constraints of the data payload phase. However, electrical constraints (like transmitter droop or maximum peak output) must also be respected duringSEND_SandSEND_T.4. Test Mode 5 Transmit Power (191.6.2.6)
The draft states: "In test mode 5 (normal operation), the transmit power... shall be as specified..."
Replacing "normal operation" here implies the transmit power limits only govern theSEND_Nphase, when in reality the transmitter must adhere to power and PSD masks throughout the entire link initialization sequence as well.5. Auto-Negotiation (e.g., 191.1.3)
The draft states that Auto-Negotiation is used to "determine common abilities, and configure for normal operation."
Changing this to "configure for data mode (SEND_N)" is too narrow. Auto-Negotiation configures parameters (like Leader/Follower roles and training seeds) that govern the entire link initialization sequence, not just the final data phase.While the replacement works perfectly in some subclauses (such as when describing the PAM4 symbol alphabet in 191.3.2.2), a blanket replacement is not acceptable.
I would be happy to work with the commenter and others to review the instances of "normal operation" case-by-case to come up with improved text proposals (e.g., using "non-test operation" or "the standard link initialization and data transmission sequence" where appropriate).
Best regards,
Ragnar
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Attachment:
Comments 65, 66, 67 Edits - v20260911a.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
# Proposed Edits for "Normal Operation" (Comments 65, 66, 67)
**P802.3dm / D2.1**
*Ragnar Jonsson - 11 September, 2026*
The following table details the recommended editing instructions to resolve the ambiguity of "normal operation" without breaking the technical intent of the draft.
Instead of a blanket replacement with "data mode (SEND_N)", these targeted edits replace "normal operation" with terms like **"data mode (SEND_N)"**, **"non-test operation"**, or **"standard link initialization"** depending on the specific technical context.
| Section | Page<br>Line | Change From Text | Change To Text | Explanation |
| :-------------------- | :----------- | :--------------------------------------------------------------------------- | :----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- | :----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- |
| **191.1.3** | 69L50 | `...determine common abilities, and configure for normal operation.` | `...determine common abilities, and configure for standard link initialization and data transmission.` | Auto-Negotiation configures parameters for the entire link bring-up sequence (including Link Sync and Training), not just the data mode. |
| **191.2.2.3.1** | 81L16 | `{−1, −1/3, +1/3, +1} in normal operation for 10G+100MBASE-T1/V1.` | `{−1, −1/3, +1/3, +1} in data mode (SEND_N) for 10G+100MBASE-T1/V1.` | Aligns with the commenter's suggestion. In this context, it correctly distinguishes the PAM4 data payload phase from the PAM2 training phase. |
| **191.2.2.3.1** | 81L17 | `{−1, +1} in normal operation for 2.5G...` | `{−1, +1} in data mode (SEND_N) for 2.5G...` | Aligns with the commenter's suggestion. Properly identifies the payload data phase. |
| **191.2.2.3.1** | 81L25 | `{0,1} in normal operation.` | `{0,1} in data mode (SEND_N).` | Aligns with the commenter's suggestion. |
| **191.6.1** | 140L32 | `101 Test mode 5—Normal operation in Idle mode.` | `101 Test mode 5—Non-test operation in Idle mode.` | Aligns with the explicit terminology used on pages 140 & 141, indicating the PHY is utilizing its standard encoding rather than a forced artificial test pattern. |
| **191.6.1** | 140L37 | `111 Test mode 7—Normal operation with zero data pattern.` | `111 Test mode 7—Non-test operation with zero data pattern.` | Consistent with Test Mode 5 terminology for describing the PHY's underlying state. |
| **191.6.2.6** | 146L8 | `In test mode 5 (normal operation), the transmit power...` | `In test mode 5 (non-test operation), the transmit power...` | Clarifies that the test measures standard transmit power levels without implying that power constraints *only* apply to SEND_N. |
| **191.6.2.7** | 147L47 | `In test mode 5 (normal operation), the transmit signal...` | `In test mode 5 (non-test operation), the transmit signal...` | Prevents a logical contradiction. If changed to SEND_N, it would imply Test Mode 5 only measures data mode, but the sentence explicitly applies these limits to SEND_S and SEND_T as well. |
| **191.7.1** | 150L20 | `101 Test mode 5—Normal operation in Idle mode.` | `101 Test mode 5—Non-test operation in Idle mode.` | Same rationale as 191.6.1. |
| **191.7.1** | 150L23 | `111 Test mode 7—Normal operation with zero data pattern.` | `111 Test mode 7—Non-test operation with zero data pattern.` | Same rationale as 191.6.1. |
| **191.7.2.7** | 153L12 | `In test mode 5 (normal operation), the transmit power...` | `In test mode 5 (non-test operation), the transmit power...` | Same rationale as 191.6.2.6. |
| **191.12.3** | 164L47 | `Normal operation shall resume after the short circuit(s) is (are) removed.` | `The standard link initialization sequence shall resume after the short circuit(s) is (are) removed.` | After a short circuit, the link drops. The PHY must execute Auto-Negotiation and training (SEND_S, SEND_T) before reaching data mode. It cannot jump straight back to SEND_N. |
| **191.15.4.1 (PICS)** | 182L20 | `...from those of normal operation.` | `...from those of non-test operation.` | Clarifies that test modes must match the PHY's standard electrical constraints across all modes (including SEND_S/T), not just during SEND_N. |
| **191.15.4.1 (PICS)** | 182L39 | `TM10 Test Mode 5... Transmit as in normal operation` | `TM10 Test Mode 5... Transmit as in non-test operation` | Keeps PICS consistent with Clause text edits. |
| **191.15.4.2 (PICS)** | 184L46 | `...from those of normal operation.` | `...from those of non-test operation.` | Keeps PICS consistent with Clause text edits. |
| **191.15.4.2 (PICS)** | 185L11 | `TML7 Test Mode 5... Transmit as in normal operation` | `TML7 Test Mode 5... Transmit as in non-test operation` | Keeps PICS consistent with Clause text edits. |
| **191.15.4.8 (PICS)** | 188L16 | `MDI5 MDI recovery... Normal operation shall resume` | `MDI5 MDI recovery... The standard link initialization sequence shall resume` | Keeps PICS consistent with Clause text edits. |