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[802.3_MAINT] Next meet 9 am PT Mon 7 July & minutes of Statistical Eye Ad Hoc, Monday 30 June



Agenda

Attendance
	17 participants plus a couple who could only catch the end; list below

Patent policy
	Piers asked if all had reviewed the patent policy http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt ; all had.  He summarised the slides.

Call for patents
	Piers made the call for patents.  None were disclosed.

Status and plans
The group considered the status as described in the call for this meeting (email below, describing the three groups with an interest in this ad hoc's work), and some clarifications were made.
Agreed that of the three, SFP+ has first priority time-wise (want to finalise this topic there in next few months).
The key thing is to get the foundations and one's thinking straight, for (any) particular scenario, then can apply it to different situations.  For example, optical and electrical-cable PMDs may need different analysis (although the overlap between copper and electrical test points means one should consider the relation between the copper and electrical PMD specs).
For maintenance of what was 802.3ae, we do not expect to influence the (P802.3axay) maintenance #9 round as it in the closing stages of sponsor ballot.  We can create a maintenance request with the consensus of P802.3ba, which industry participants would be able to use to the extent that it clarified but did not contradict IEEE Std 802.3 in force.
This ad hoc's subject is basic work that need to be done somewhere and feed into .3ba, so it might as well be in .3ba.  Separate .3ba and SFP+ meetings would dilute the effort.  Be sure that any implications for faster-than-10G lanes and multiple lanes are not forgotten.  We should not attempt too much; we do not intend to tell the groups bringing in proposals what they should do, rather work with them when they have the basics in place.  Don't become open ended or accepting all tasks, don't become a general-purpose physical lane ad hoc.  So the work that is specific to .3ba will come later.

In the context of the March Straw Poll 1, we asked ourselves what was the further evaluation desired by Option D.  By the end of the call the people on it had a clear enough idea of what the ad hoc was about that they could not reliably estimate/remember what others had been thinking. 

Straw poll
	Continue as an ad hoc in .3ba?.  Yes; no disagreement, no abstains.

Will any new mask spec take the channel into account?  For new PMDs, should work backwards from the receiver's needs through the channel to define a mask (or whatever) for the transmitter.
An eye mask could be the primary transmitter spec, or acting in concert with something else e.g. TDP or TWDP, or not used at all - depends what is chosen, PMD by PMD.
For .3 maintenance, may be less channel-specific (e.g. presently have same mask for SR, LR and ER channels) as don't want to make unnecessary changes.  

Report to P802.3ba
	Piers will make a start on ad hoc status report slides for next week.  No other presentations for July on this topic were mentioned.

Next meeting
9 am PT Monday 7 July	(might be 10 am some future weeks)
Meeting Passcode: 404749
US phone number: +1 877 205 1729 or +1 719 867 0498
UK +44 (0) 20 7082 0221
Tokyo +813 4455 1485
Other country phone numbers are available: please email if you want one.
Press *6 to mute or "un-mute" line.


Attendance list (apologies if I have corrupted someone's name!)

Brice Achkir
Stephen Alie
John D'Ambrosia, P802.3ba chairman
Vittal Balasubramanian
Piers Dawe, ad hoc chairman and note-taker
Mike Dudek
Mike Fogg
Gary Giust
Greg LeCheminant
John Petrilla
Rick Pimpinella
Thomas Schrans
Jonathan King
Greg McSorley
Jeff Maki
Darian Schulz
Pavel Zivny

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-stds-802-3-maint@xxxxxxxx
[mailto:owner-stds-802-3-maint@xxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of DAWE,PIERS
Sent: 19 June 2008 17:03
To: STDS-802-3-MAINT@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [802.3_MAINT] Phone meeting of the "Statistical Eye Ad Hoc" 9 am PT on Monday 30 June

There will be a phone meeting of this ad hoc at 9 am PT on Monday 30 June for not more than an hour.  The purpose will be to note any developments in this field, document what we want to get accomplished, and make plans for which SDOs or MSAs should address which issues to what timescales - and in particular, what we want done in P802.3ba.

Meeting Passcode: 404749
US phone number: +1 877 205 1729 or +1 719 867 0498
UK +44 (0) 20 7082 0221
Tokyo +813 4455 1485
Other country phone numbers are available: please email if you want one.
Press *6 to mute or "un-mute" line.

Any meeting materials will be made available from http://ieee802.org/3/ba/public/AdHoc/index.html

If you are planning to participate to the teleconference please take a moment to read the IEEE patent policy before the meeting:	http://standards.ieee.org/board/pat/pat-slideset.ppt.

There are several overlapping interests:
1     802.3, maintenance of original 802.3ae
	Sort out definition of eye measurements in the existing 10G Ethernet (except LRM which is sorted)
2     SFP+
	Provide spec points and any collateral e.g. measurement methodology
		Choose suitable levels of statistical significance for eyes at transmitter and receiver
3     P802.3ba
	Provide measurement methodology and suitable levels of statistical significance for any new eye specs in P802.3ba
	Pay particular attention to test time for multi-lane PMDs (AUI counts as a PMD, as it connects PMAs)
	Consider to what extent eye measurements could be eliminated or method modified if beneficial
	There are separate considerations for electrical interconnect (XFI, 10GBASE-KR and derivatives) and optical.  However, the two communities may be able to share ideas beneficially.
4	Other?

As I see it, item 1 is not driven by a timeline but remains important, item 2 is expected make its choices in the next two months or so, item 3 is not yet the focus of P802.3ba.  It would be good to relate what know-how will be available from SFP+ and when to the needs of items 1 and 3, and plan for what P802.3ba will need and when.

Our charter in P802.3ba is defined by Straw Poll #1 from the March 08 Minutes:

"Straw Poll #1: Regarding dawe_01_0308.pdf, the following should be done:
A. IEEE P802.3ba takes this work on as part of the project.
B. The work should be done, but not as part of the IEEE P802.3ba project.
C. Nothing should be done.
D. Further evaluation is necessary.
Results:
A. 23
B. 21
C. 0
D. 38
Choice D wins. A "Statistical Eye Ad Hoc" will be formed and Chaired by Piers Dawe to further evaluate findings presented in dawe_01_0308.pdf, and come back with a recommendation to the Task Force on how to handle."

That's what the phone meeting is for - to progress our recommendation for a work plan, to put before P802.3ba at its July meeting.  It is NOT intended to do actual engineering or scientific work on this call.

Piers

-----Original Message-----
From: DAWE,PIERS [mailto:piers.dawe@xxxxxxxxxxxxx] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 01, 2008 12:38 PM
To: STDS-802-3-HSSG@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [802.3BA] Invitation to join the "Statistical Eye Ad Hoc"

All,

At the March meeting of P802.3ba it was decided to set up a "Statistical
Eye Ad Hoc".  Its purpose is to recommend improvement and clarification
to the (optical) transmit eye specification of IEEE Std 802.3 52.9.7,
and to make recommendations for any similar measurements in P802.3ba.
It is hoped to reduce the burden in product cost and heat of the present
spec, reduce test cost (time), remove ambiguity and improve test
reproducibility.   Interoperability and existing networks will not be
affected.  See http://ieee802.org/3/ba/public/mar08/dawe_01_0308.pdf .
An extract from the (unapproved) minutes of the March meeting is below.

I intend to start by collecting a list of those interested and a
building a list of what has been done and needs to be done to move this
topic forward.

As this is a specialist subject I intend to communicate with those who
sign up, not the whole reflector.  So please sign up if you are
interested!

Thank you,

Piers

Presentation #37
Title - Eye mask statistical significance and practicality
By - Piers Dawe, Avago Technologies
See - dawe_01_0308.pdf
Discussion
* Definitions of the abbreviations used in the presentation were added
at the end of the presentation. The Chair will upload the updated
presentation to the website.
* Clarifying questions were asked and answered.

Straw Poll #1: Regarding dawe_01_0308.pdf, the following should be done:
	A. IEEE P802.3ba takes this work on as part of the project.
	B. The work should be done, but not as part of the IEEE P802.3ba
project.
	C. Nothing should be done.
	D. Further evaluation is necessary.
Results:
	A. 23
	B. 21
	C. 0
	D. 38
Choice D wins. A "Statistical Eye Ad Hoc" will be formed and Chaired by
Piers Dawe to further evaluate findings presented in dawe_01_0308.pdf,
and come back with a recommendation to the Task Force on how to handle.