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RE: [802SEC] Interest in moving the July Friday SEC meeting start to 1pm from 4pm?


The thing is that people were told that the closing exec was going to be at
a certain time and they did not know about the change. The Meeting
Announcement did not highlight that a change was made so participants did
not know about it when making their plans. Meeting announcements are handed
out during the 802 meeting week and some people do their bookings from that.
In the past we have not made changes such as adjusting the meeting fee to
the next plenary for just that reason. 

This change did not have proper notice. The working groups were not polled
to find out how they felt about the change and it changed meeting details
after they were announced. 

I'm sure it was done with the best of intent but it was procedurally bogus.
The issue should have at least been raised Monday and Working Group
participants told that the time was in question or the change should have
been delayed to get extra notice. Nothing prevents ad hoc groups or task
forces from meeting on the weekend before the plenary and many of us have
done it when necessary to get extra time. 


-----Original Message-----
From: RDLove []
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 12:42 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Interest in moving the July Friday SEC meeting
start to 1pm from 4pm?

It seems to me that three months is more than enough time for people to plan
there travel schedules, and even, how to take advantage of additional
meeting time.  There is no hard rule about ad-hoc groups meeting to address
issues that there is never enough time to address during the meeting.

In addition, it seems to me that the chair has the right to rule on things
procedural.  This includes the right to set the agenda 90 days ahead of a
meeting to let WG members know that there will be a Friday closing plenary,
rather than Thursday afternoon.  I see no reason to hamstring the Exec by
not letting them make good decisions to increase the productive time
available to us at their SEC meeting.  I heartily endorse the action taken,
and am delighted that 802.17 has chosen to use that additional time to their

Best regards,

Robert D. Love
Chair, Resilient Packet Ring Alliance
President, LAN Connect Consultants
7105 Leveret Circle     Raleigh, NC 27615
Phone: 919 848-6773       Mobile: 919 810-7816
email:          Fax: 208 978-1187
----- Original Message -----
From: <>
To: <>; <>;
<>; <>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2001 3:15 PM
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Interest in moving the July Friday SEC meeting start
to 1pm from 4pm?

> Vic,
> When I started chairing 802.3, the Working Group meetings often ran until
> PM and the Exec started at 7 PM. I found that two hours was enough to read
> material for the meeting that arrived in my inbox during Thursday and to
> prepare motions and reports.
> Increasing the gap between end of WG meetings and start of the closing
> plenary makes the meeting less accessible to observers especially when the
> meeting starts so late that people would have to stay over Friday night
> fly Saturday. Many of us already travel on Sunday or even Saturday to get
> the meeting. Concern that the closing Exec would be less accessible to
> Working Group members was even expressed Monday when it was only being
> to Friday morning.
> Also, the decision seems to have been made with little chance for Working
> Group input. Looking at the March minutes, on Monday the Exec set the
> closing plenary for Friday morning. This decision was announced to 802
> participants at the plenary. Nothing in the minutes indicates that there
> any tentativeness to this decision and I do not recall it coming up during
> the 802.3 Working Group minutes (the minutes of 802.3 support this
> recollection). Based on Monday's input, 802.3 moved its closing plenary to
> Thursday afternoon.
> Then Thursday at nearly midnight with little chance for Working Group
> the closing plenary is moved to 8 hours later. Changing the time at that
> late point with no notice to a large Working Group makes it very difficult
> for Working Group members to observe the plenary as it will start a full
> after the time set for 802.3's closing plenary.
> I've looked at the meeting announcement for Portland. The agenda reflects
> the change in time of the Exec meeting but this change from the schedule
> that was announced at the March Plenary is not highlighted in any way. It
> should have been up front in the meeting announcement such that it could
> be missed. At this point, many people already have their flight
> reservations.
> The way this has been handled will give a very poor impression of the
> openness of the 802 Exec. The time of the closing Exec should not be
> after the opening Exec meeting of the prior meeting because Working Groups
> should be able to plan their next plenary and people should be able to
> believe announcements made at the plenary.  It seems that as soon as the
> Exec removed their meeting times from the Operating Rules they are abusing
> the new latitude.
> We are probably in a situation now where it is not possible to move the
> back to the original Friday morning time as some Working Groups have
> their schedules, but it should be moved to as early on Friday as possible.
> Regards,
> Pat
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Hayes, Vic (Vic) []
> > Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2001 6:00 AM
> > To: reflector 802.0; Dawn C. Slykhouse; Paul Nikolich
> > Subject: RE: [802SEC] Interest in moving the July Friday SEC meeting
> > start to 1pm from 4pm?
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > I disagree with the earlier start of the SEC meeting. Just as Bob, I
> > to be able to follow all that happens in IEEE 802.11 and then have to
> > prepare reports/motions etc. for the SEC.
> >
> > What I did not heard from my colleagues was the need for them to read
> > material that came to the SEC from other Working Groups and that will be
> > put on a vote.
> >
> > The time to read the SEC submissions is for me an important argument to
> > keep the start at 4 PM.
> > ---------------
> > Vic Hayes
> > Agere Systems Nederland B.V., formerly Lucent Technologies
> > Zadelstede 1-10
> > 3431 JZ  Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
> > Phone: +31 30 609 7528 (Time Zone UTC + 2)
> > FAX: +31 30 609 7498
> > e-mail:
> >
> >
> > ----------
> > From: Paul Nikolich[]
> > Sent: 08 June 2001 22:41 PM
> > To:;
> > Subject: [802SEC] Interest in moving the July Friday SEC meeting
> > start to 1pm from 4pm?
> >
> >
> > It has come to my attention that most working groups will complete their
> > work by 12pm Friday at the July plenary and there is interest among
> > several
> > SEC members to move the time of the SEC meeting to 1pm-5pm from 4pm-8pm.
> >
> > SEC members: please respond to both myself and Dawn by close of business
> > Monday June 11th if you would like to start the SEC meeting at 1pm or
> > prefer to leave it starting at 4pm.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > --Paul Nikolich
> > 802 Vice Chair
> >
> >
> >