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RE: [802SEC] Should all IEEE 802 drafts coming for sale be a CLEAN file or should they be offered as they come (in the recirculation case, with changes marked)????

Bob and Angela, SEC members,

Because the IEEE-SA does have the requirement to be an "Open" Committee, I
would interpret the question "which drafts are available for sale" to be
answered as "all drafts, even change page instruction as well as versions
with change bars".

As to Bob's indication that they only make drafts available "once we have
entered WG ballot", I would like to state that they are violating the rules
for openness.


Vic Hayes 
Agere Systems Nederland B.V., formerly Lucent Technologies 
Zadelstede 1-10 
3431 JZ  Nieuwegein, the Netherlands 
Phone: +31 30 609 7528 (Time Zone UTC + 1, + 2 during daylight saving time) 
FAX: +31 30 609 7556 

-----Original Message-----
From: Grow, Bob []
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 9:27 PM
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Should all IEEE 802 drafts coming for sale be a
CLEAN file or should they be offered as they come (in the recirculation
case, with changes marked)????


It would be great to have an automatic process, but I am not clear on one
issue.  There is no consistent policy on when drafts are made available for
public sale.  In the case of 802.3, we make drafts available once we have
entered WG ballot.  In this case we do not upload drafts to the ballot

During reciruclation ballots, we might only distribute change pages for the
ballot.  (For example the upload for the current P802.3af/D4.3 recirculation
ballot included change pages only (about a fourth of the complete draft).  

I believe a clean version is the appropriate version for sale.  This is also
the only consistent thing we do throughout the entire ballot process.
Because of FrameMaker's limitated diff capabilities, we may change the way
we produce the change bar version depending on the change volume.  Because
the upload isn't the clean version, and it isn't necessarily complete, an
automatic process will include staff picking up the complete clean version
of the draft from the WG private pages.  Some questions need to be answered
for the process to be both comprehensive and automatic.

1.  How does staff learn of first public availability of a project draft?
2.  How will staff learn of WG ballots or new drafts prior to sponsor
3.  Do all WGs produce and post clean versions of documents for every
4.  Do all WGs announce the URL, username and password for the complete
clean draft on each ballot announcement?

I support your efforts to make this process automatic, but I will be
concerned if it doesn't also support sale of drafts prior to sponsor ballot.

I also think it is important that we be able to invoke this automatic
process without uploading the complete clean draft.  Our voters are able to
work with pointers to the draft, staff should be equally willing to work
with the pointer (URL, username and password).  

--Bob Grow

-----Original Message-----
From: []
Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 11:49 AM
Subject: [802SEC] Should all IEEE 802 drafts coming for sale be a CLEAN
file or should they be offered as they come (in the recirculation case,
with changes marked)????

Hello All:

In our efforts to keep improving the process to make IEEE-802 drafts
available for sale, there are some things that need clarification.
Therefore, I will like to raise the following question:

I understand from Jerry Walker that we do not need to confirm with the WGC
any longer, if the draft will be made available for sale, but instead, this
will be a default process, meaning that every time a new or revised draft
comes,  we will make these drafts available for sale.

With that in mind, I would like to get input from all of you as to which is
the right thing to do in this case.  Hence, please let me know if the
drafts we will make available for sale, are to be **as they come**  (with
the changes marked)  when it comes to recirculations, or if we should make
*only clean drafts* (without changes marked* available for sale.

Please let us know as we are streamlining this process, of making IEEE-802
drafts available for sale in a timely manner, especially since this process
is so important for all of us, especially for our customers.

Please keep in mind that the prompt input from every WGC, regarding drafts
coming for recirculations, is needed and very much appreciated.


Angela Ortiz
Program Manager - Technical Program Development
IEEE Standards, 445 Hoes Lane,
Piscataway, NJ  08855-1331 USA
Telephone: 1732-562-3809  ><  Fax: 1732-562-1571
E-m:   ><