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# RE: [802SEC] Final CD-ROM content



Bob,  I would really like to know the source of this "agreement" and where it is documented, as I do not recall any such agreement ever being discussed by the SEC nor was any such matter voted on to my knowledge.  Recollections of the intent of an agreement can vary widely if they are not documented in some formal manner.

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing - SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
(425) 865-2443    Fx: (425) 865-6721
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob O'Hara [mailto:bob@airespace.com]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:48 PM
To: stds-802-sec@ieee.org
Cc: pat_thaler@agilent.com; gthompso@nortelnetworks.com; y.hosang@ieee.org; j.t.walker@ieee.org; millardo@dominetsystems.com; p.nikolich@ieee.org
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Final CD-ROM content

Geoff, Pat,

I think our hands are tied here.  If I understand it correctly, there is
an agreement between IEEE and 802 that limits the distribution of the
"editions" that are not approved, balloted standards.  I know that the
"editions" will not appear in the "Get IEEE 802" program.  But, I was
not aware that the agreement extended to the 802 CD-ROM.  My discussion
with Yvette and Jerry made it clear that their understanding of the
agreement is that the "editions" are available only for sale and for
distribution to the WG chairs and editors.

We are also prevented from redistributing the ISO/IEC versions of our
own standards, by agreement between IEEE and ISO/IEC if I understand
correctly.  The fact that we have distributed the ISO/IEC versions on
past CD-ROMs is not going to hold any water, today.

If we always want to be able to distribute the latest versions of our
documents on the CD-ROM, I would think that 802's only course of action
would be to stop forwarding new and revised standards and amendments to
ISO/IEC, and to conduct revision ballots frequently, as does 802.3, to
obviate the need for the "editions".

-Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: pat_thaler@agilent.com [mailto:pat_thaler@agilent.com]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 3:01 PM
To: gthompso@nortelnetworks.com; Bob O'Hara
Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org; y.hosang@ieee.org; j.t.walker@ieee.org;
millardo@dominetsystems.com
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Final CD-ROM content

I agree very much with what Geoff said. We have just been balloting
additions to IEEE 802.3 which operate on text originally from 802.3 with
changes from 802.3ae (which hasn't been integrated yet into an edition).
It is significantly extra work to have to be comparing between the three
documents all the time. Once the consolidated edition is available, we
should make it available to our voters.

Regards,
Pat

-----Original Message-----
From: Geoff Thompson [mailto:gthompso@nortelnetworks.com]
Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 2:28 PM
To: Bob O'Hara
Cc: stds-802-sec@ieee.org; y.hosang@ieee.org; j.t.walker@ieee.org;
millardo@dominetsystems.com
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Final CD-ROM content

Bob-

I have a big problem with this.

All of the ISO/IEC version of 802 Standards have always been distributed
in
the past. They have always been a joint publication. The issue of
something
being an ISO standard but only an IEEE "edition" has never been an issue
or
a barrier.

Also, 802 voters should not be burdened with the extra work of flipping
back and forth between multiple documents when referring to the current
standard in order to formulate their ballot comments.

The work that they do on responsible review of our drafts is already
onerous enough. Both by virtue of the size of the drafts and the size of

the established standards that they have to judge for technical
integration.

Bottom line, I think this is a bad idea in that (1) it takes away
something
we had in the past and (2) is counterproductive to good standards
development.

Geoff

At 01:55 PM 10/13/2003 -0700, Bob O'Hara wrote:

>After discussion with Jerry and Yvette, I have revised the content of
>the CD-ROM to contain only IEEE versions of documents, since IEEE does
>not have the right to allow us to redistribute the ISO/IEC documents.
I
>have also removed the "editions" of the 802.1Q and 802.11-1999
>documents, since these are not approved standards and the agreement
with
>802 is only for chairs and editors to have these documents without
>purchasing them.
>
>Please review the content of the CD-ROM, below.  Get back in touch with
>me before close of business today, Pacific Daylight Time, if there is
>something missing from the list.  I will be burning the master CD-R
>tonight and sending it to be reproduced tomorrow.  This is your last
>chance.
>
>Also, my apologies to Roger.  I did receive updated information for the
>CD-ROM for 802.16 and did not mention it in my earlier email.
>
>  -Bob
>
>Bob O'Hara
>Airespace, Inc.
>110 Nortech Parkway
>San Jose, CA 95134-2307
>
>Phone:       +1 408 635 2025
>Mobile:      +1 408 218 4025
>Fax:         +1 408 635 2020
>email:       bob@airespace.com
>
>The list:
>
>
>802-Stds\OPRULES\802 overview 2002r1.pdf
>802-Stds\OPRULES\INDEX.HTML
>802-Stds\OPRULES\OVERVIEW2000.PDF
>802-Stds\OPRULES\rules.pdf
>
>802-Stds\DOT_0\802-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_0\802a-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_0\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1B-1995.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1E-1994.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1G-1998.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1H-1997.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1Q-1998.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1s-2002.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1t-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1u-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802.1v-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802_1D-1998.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802_1F-1993.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802_1Q-1998.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802_1W-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\802_1X-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_1\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\DOT_2\802.2-1998.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_2\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\DOT_3\1802.3-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802.3-2002.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802.3ae-2002.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802.3af-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802.3aj-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\DISTORTION-M.TXT
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\IEEE8023-LAG-MIB.TXT
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\INDEX.HTML
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\SINEFIT-M.TXT
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\TABLE40_1.TXT
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\TABLE40_10.TXT
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\TABLE40_11.TXT
>802-Stds\DOT_3\802_3_FILES\TABLE40_2.TXT
>
>802-Stds\DOT_5\802.5-1998.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_5\802.5r_and_802.5j-1998.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_5\802.5t-2000.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_5\802.5v-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_5\802.5W-2000.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_5\INDEX.HTML802-Stds\DOT_10\802.10-1998.PDF
>
>802-Stds\DOT_10\802.10a-1999.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_10\802.10c-1998.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_10\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802.11-1999.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802.11a-1999.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802.11b-1999.PDF
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802.11b-1999_Cor1-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802.11d-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802.11F-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802.11g-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES
>802-Stds\DOT_11\INDEX.HTML
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES\802_11.EXE
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES\dot11mib with 11a 11b and 11d.txt
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES\INDEX.HTML
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES\SDL-AP_FILES.ZIP
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES\SDL-MACMIB_FILES.ZIP
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES\SDL-STA_FILES.ZIP
>802-Stds\DOT_11\802_11_FILES\SDT_Files.ZIP
>
>802-Stds\DOT_15\802.15.1-2002.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_15\802.15.2.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_15\802.15.3-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_15\802.15.4.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_15\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\DOT_16\802.16-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_16\802.16.2-2001.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_16\802.16a-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_16\802.16c-2002.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_16\802.16_Conformance01-2003.pdf
>802-Stds\DOT_16\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\obsolete\DOT_0\802-1990.PDF
>802-Stds\obsolete\DOT_0\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\obsolete\DOT_3\1802.3-1991.PDF
>802-Stds\obsolete\DOT_3\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_4\802.4b-1992.pdf
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_4\802.4h-1997.pdf
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_4\8802-4-1990.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_4\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_12\802.12C-1998.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_12\8802-12-1998.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_12\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_6\802.6-1994.pdf
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_6\802.6ch-1993.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_6\802.6j-1995.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_6\802.6k-1992.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_6\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_7\802.7-1989.pdf
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_7\INDEX.HTML
>
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_9\802.9-1994.pdf
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_9\802.9A-1995.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_9\802.9C-1995.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_9\802.9D-1995.PDF
>802-Stds\withdrawn\DOT_9\INDEX.HTML
>
>