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[802SEC] Ballot Results: Rules Change on Role Call Votes

Dear EC members,

Happy New Year.

The EC Rules Change ballot on Roll Call Votes closed
on December 30, 2003, and as shown below the ballot
currently fails.

If I have not recorded your current vote correctly, please
email me.

Buzz, Steve, I'll try to track you guys down in Vancouver
to discuss your positions if you can't attend the CR
session. But I would appreciate a quick email letting me
know where you stand on the issue.

Comment Resolution will be monday night following the SEC

Looking at the disapprove voters, it appears that 4 voters
could flip based on having provided remedies. However,
some of the remedies are not completely compatible. The
open discussion should be fun to see if there is
a consensus position :)

Other interesting information. I was sent a version
of Robert's (1915 4th edition) that describes the
division of the assembly that suggests the chair can
restrict division votes.

"A Division of the Assembly may be called for, without obtaining the 
floor, at any time after the question has been put, even after the vote 
has been announced and another has the floor, provided the vote was 
taken viva voce, or by show of hands, and it is called for before 
another motion has been made. This call, or motion, is made by saying, 
"I call for a division," or "I doubt the vote," or simply by calling 
out, "Division." It does not require a second, and cannot be debated, or 
amended, or have any other subsidiary motion applied to it. As soon as a 
division is called for, the chair proceeds again to take the vote, this 
time by having the affirmative rise, and then when they are seated 
having the negative rise. While any member has the right to insist upon 
a rising vote, or a division, where there is any question as to the vote 
being a true expression of the will of the assembly, the chair should 
not permit this privilege to be abused to the annoyance of the assembly, 
by members constantly demanding a division where there is a full vote 
and no question as to which side is in the majority. It requires a 
majority vote to order the vote to be counted, or to be taken by yeas 
and nays (roll call) or by ballot. These motions are incidental to the 
question that is pending or has just been pending, and cannot be debated."

Therefore, for those of you who believe that Roberts should be advisory
could extend the view on division to roll call votes thus suggesting
that a chair does have some discretion on roll call votes to refuse
the request if it is viewed as an annoyance or asked for constantly.
It also suggests though that the roll call vote can be requested by
anyone at anytime. My reading of this suggests that each side of the
WG gets a certain number of roll call votes before the chair gets
to shut them down. This would insure that one side could not "run
down the clock" on silly roll call votes such that the other side
could not request one.



   Vote categories:         DIS    DNV    APP  Issues / Remedies
   01 Geoff Thompson        DIS                language,
                                               non-member voting concern
                                               possibly already solved
                                               with RR
   02 Mat Sherman                         APP  >25%,
                                               insure no restriction to
                                               use on only technical 

   03 Buzz Rigsbee                 DNV
   04 Bob O'Hara            DIS                No limits based on time
                                               No ability for chair to
                                               restrict use of RR by
                                               failing to recognize
   05 Bill Quackenbush      DIS                language,
                                               No limits based on time
   06 Tony Jeffree          DIS                RC votes to be held if 1
                                               member requests it
   07 Bob Grow                             APP  >25% + language
   08 Stuart Kerry          DIS
   09 Bob Heile                            APP
   10 Roger Marks           DIS
   11 Mike Takefman                        APP
   12 Carl Stevenson        DIS
   13 Steve Shellhammer            DNV
   14 Jerry Upton           DIS
   15 Paul Nikolich                        APP
                     total: -8-    -2-    -5-
Michael Takefman    
Distinguished Engineer,       Cisco Systems
Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
3000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
voice: 613-254-3399       cell:613-220-6991
Michael Takefman    
Distinguished Engineer,       Cisco Systems
Chair IEEE 802.17 Stds WG
3000 Innovation Dr, Ottawa, Canada, K2K 3E8
voice: 613-254-3399       cell:613-220-6991