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Re: [802SEC] Rome decision



Buzz,

Actually I see your arguments as supporting my points which are:

	1) Even though cheaper venues were available, 4000+ attendees
were willing to pay $1100 registration fee and double the hotel costs we
charge normally.  If other IEEE organization can do this, then if once a
year we bear that expense to accommodate some of our constituency I
think it is reasonable. We don't even know who we are cutting out of the
process by never leaving North America.  How else can we find out but to
try?

	2) Other international bodies consistently hold meetings in one
place (outside of North America).  If they can find a way to do it, so
can we.  I'll hold IETF as an example of another organization of similar
size to IEEE 802 that does hold rotating meetings and does go to Europe
and Asia.

So can we find better ways of hosting meetings abroad?  I'm sure we can.
We've never done this before, and I'm not expecting us to get it perfect
the first time.  But we have talked about this issue for at least a
year.  We need to start somewhere.  Given my experiences with MILCOM, I
don't think the pricing we've suggested (with the exception of the hotel
room fees and I plan to stay elsewhere) is out of line.

Mat  

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D. 
Engineering Fellow 
BAE Systems -  Network Systems (NS) 
Office: +1 973.633.6344 
Cell: +1 973.229.9520 
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 1:31 AM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA); STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Rome decision


Matt,  It might be a bit more fair if you had bothered to mention that
the IEEE MILCOM was in Orlando, FL, just another North American venue,
where we just paid $145/night a $400 fee, and had excellent facilities.
The ITU can afford to hold meetings in Europe because it owns the
meeting site, a luxury that we can't really consider unless they invite
us to use their space at no cost.  I would further point out that the
United Nations is considered by nearly everyone on the planet as an
International organization even though they hold all of their meetings
in NYC.  I think your argument that you can't be an international
organization if you don't hold meetings in Europe and Asia is totally
bogus.  I think Roger has it exactly right: that with local hosts you
can get several benefits that help offset the costs and difficulties
involved in nNA venues, but without those you are paying exorbitant
costs for substandard facilities, and very few people get a benefit from
that.  

Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing IT
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
Ph: (425) 373-8960    Fx: (425) 865-7960
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
[mailto:matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM] 
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:40 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Rome decison

Roger,

While I agree an international organization can stay in one place and
still be 'international' I still think it avoids the question.

ITU / United Nations / Geneva have a special status.  Not many other
organizations have that status.  If you want to select a facility in Los
Vegas and decide we will always meet there I think it would simplify
life for many of us, but I would not be convinced that it allows equal
access to all interested parties.

What matters more to me is that the ITU seems to be able to successfully
host meetings IN EUROPE!  Why can't we as IEEE802 do the same? 

I've gone to ITU meetings.  Conference space is provided separate from
hotel facilities, and everyone is on their own for hotels.  Frankly the
approach works great, and I'm willing to try it in IEEE802.  However we
seem to be clinging to the concept of we need to tie hotel and
conference space together in the same contract.  This seems to handicap
us, and I'm not convinced it's cheaper.  In general I think ITU meetings
are smaller (though I guess stuff like WRC get large).  So I'm not sure
it's a fair comparison.  

But the bottom line for me is that other organizations seem to be able
to hold conferences outside North America.  Why can't we?

And by the way, just prior to IEEE802 I attended IEEE MILCOM.  The
attendance fee for 3 days was $1100 dollars, and the conference hotel
was about $260/night if I recall.  I stayed off site at a cheaper hotel
(about $160 I think).  I had to rent a car, and it was not as convenient
(and by the time I added in parking and car rental not much cheaper
either).  But somehow MILCOM managed to attract about 4000 participants
if memory serves me right.  If once a year we have a more expensive
meeting location, I don't personally see that as a show stopper (it
isn't for other IEEE venues such as MILCOM).

Mat

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D. 
Engineering Fellow 
BAE Systems -  Network Systems (NS) 
Office: +1 973.633.6344 
Cell: +1 973.229.9520 
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Roger B. Marks
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:48 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Rome decison

Pat,

I share your views on this.

Aside from concerns about the venue, the costs, and the lack of a  
local host, I'd like to revisit an issue I mentioned during the  
discussion. I said that, while I would like to see plenaries  
regularly outside North America, I do not accept the argument that we  
cannot be a legitimate "international" SDO otherwise. I noted, as an  
example, that most of the ITU standardization bodies develop  
international recommendations while meeting exclusively in a single  
city - Geneva. Another EC member disagreed with my statement,  
claiming that ITU groups do meet all around the world. Unfortunately,  
I did not have an opportunity for rebuttal during the meeting.

I've taken a look at the ITU-R calendar for some statistics to  
demonstrate my point. The calendar shows 49 confirmed ITU-R events in  
the year 2007. Except for three meetings of Working Party 8F, all of  
the other events were in Geneva. In 2006, the same calendar shows 73  
events. 56 were in Geneva.

Every meeting of a Study Group as a whole was in Geneva. So, while  
the Working Parties - the equivalent of our Working Groups -  
sometimes meet outside of Geneva, the Study Group sessions - the  
equivalent of our "Plenaries" - are exclusively in Geneva.

Although there may be multiple reasons, I believe that Geneva is a  
preferred location for ITU-R meetings because the costs are low and  
the meeting facilities are good. Also, I believe that, when Working  
Parties meet outside of Geneva, they do so with the support of a  
local host.

I think that IEEE 802 would do well to consider the ITU-R example.

Roger


On Nov 20, 2007, at 02:54 PM, Pat Thaler wrote:

> Colleagues,
>
> I was surprised and disappointed by the decision of the EC on  
> Friday to
> choose the Rome venue. While I want to have non-North American, non-US
> (that is Hawaii may not be part of North America but a meeting there
> doesn't demonstrate a commitment to global standards making)  
> plenaries,
> I have concerns about this venue that go beyond the room night and
> registration fee costs.
>
> How many of us have looked at the on-line reviews of this property? It
> is very isolated. You can start by looking at the reviews on Trip
> Advisor.
> http://rome-hotels.tripadvisor.com/Hotel_Review-g187791-d619622- 
> Reviews-
> Rome_Marriott_Park_Hotel-Rome_Lazio.html
>
> Sincerely,
> Pat
>
> ----------
> This email is sent from the 802 Executive Committee email  
> reflector.  This list is maintained by Listserv.


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