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Re: [802SEC] Possible Signs of Dominance action

Thank you,  Paul.

I'll wait a week or so, and then to an editing pass on the document. I'll consider how to incorporate your comments then. I likewise have no wish to harm constructive consensus building. But "constructive" and "perfectly acceptable" are in the eye of the beholder :0). If you are on the losing side of a technical argument, that is often not perfectly acceptable to you.


Adrian Stephens
IEEE 802.11 Working Group Chair
Phone: +1 (971) 203-2032
Mobile: +1 (210) 268-6451 (when in USA)
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On 2017-04-11 21:03, Paul Nikolich wrote:

Thank you for drafting this document, it is a good mechanism to stimulate discussion on an extremely (impossibly?) difficult to measure, highly subjective topic.

I haven't seen any of our EC colleagues way in yet -- perhaps my comments will help get the comments flowing.

My high level comments are as follows:

1) We should try to define and separate "signs" from "evidence". In my mind, "evidence" is something that has documented proof of occurrence (e.g., motion vote tallies). A "sign" is behavior a group chair (or participant) observes (it may be documented by the observer).

2) In your Notes column, the potential explanations for the observed behavior have negative connotations. In some (many?) cases there is a perfectly acceptable explanation for the observed behavior. For example, in the first row, the explanation for non-existent technical debate is that everyone simply agrees with the proposal on the floor. Perhaps there should be two explanation columns; one for 'negative' and one for 'normal' or 'positive'.

3) We need to be very careful not to hinder positive consensus building behaviors that naturally occur outside formal meeting time. In my opinion, as long as the group of individuals working on building consensus are open and transparent in their activities, it probably is OK. If we produce a 'signs/evidence of dominance' document, we should also produce a 'mechanisms for constructive consensus building' document.



------ Original Message ------
From: "Adrian Stephens" <>
Sent: 4/7/2017 5:35:53 AM
Subject: [802SEC] Possible Signs of Dominance action

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