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Re: [802SEC] Clarification of what "technical discussion" are covered by the IEEE-SA statement on BIS Entity List


The policy is not clear to me.

The "IEEE Standards Association Statement on Participation of BIS Entity List Entity or Individual" says "However, a Listed Person shall not participate in meetings or communications that involve technical discussions." It's pretty obvious that this is not what it means, but we need the IEEE-SA to revise the statement to say what it does mean. 

It appears, from context, that the restriction is intended to be conditional, but the condition is not clear. The heading of the section is "IEEE-SA Leadership and Governance Meetings," so perhaps that's the intended condition. That section refers also to "executive sessions." So, is the condition related to any "IEEE-SA Leadership and Governance Meeting," or only to those in executive session? Or perhaps to "IEEE-SA Leadership and Governance Meetings" in which an "executive session" is "in play". But I don't know what "in play" means; maybe it refers to a meeting that is not in executive session but has the possibility of going into executive session?

I think that the sentence should read "However, a Listed Person shall not participate in closed IEEE-SA Leadership and Governance meetings or communications that involve technical discussions." By that's only my guess.


On June 4, 2019 at 11:57:47 AM, Benjamin A. Rolfe ( wrote:


Thank you very much, that is very clear!


On 6/4/2019 10:49 AM, Yvette Ho Sang wrote:

Thanks for reaching out. Since standards development meetings are open and intended for development and publication of IEEE standards, the restrictions do not apply to those open standards develoment meetings. The restrictions apply in closed meetings where there are technical discussions. For IEEE Standards, that would be during governance, planning, or leadership meetings where an executive session is in play.


Yvette  Ho Sang, MBA, ARM
Director, IPR and Risk Mgmt
IEEE Standards Association
445 Hoes Lane
Piscataway, NJ 08854
Tel: +1 732 562 3814
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Fostering technological innovation and excellence for the benefit of humanity.

On Tue, Jun 4, 2019 at 1:44 PM Benjamin A. Rolfe <> wrote:

Hi John, Yvette,

Thank you both for attending the 802 EC teleconference today.  I remain unclear reading the IEEE-SA and IEEE documents regarding the impact BIS entity list and the proper conduct of Standards Development Meetings.

Are we allowed to have technical discussions in standards development  meetings with participants who may be affiliated with or employed by one of the entities identified?

Are discussions via the email reflectors (email lists) covered by the BIS restrictions?

The primary purpose of standards development meetings is to have technical discussions.  The IEEE guidance indicates that we may continue to include persons affiliated with or employed by one of the identified entities, while the IEEE-SA guidance specifically prohibits "technical discussions" with such people.  Yvette stated that such prohibition is intended only to apply to "Executive Sessions", but this is not clear to me from the actual text. As a Task Group chair and participant, I need to ensure the proper policy is being followed.

Thanks and best regards


Benjamin A. Rolfe
408-332-0725 Mobile
408-395-7207 Office

Blind Creek Associates


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