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Re: [802SEC] Results of IEEE 802 Future meeting vision ad hoc meeting on 14 Oct 2021

Andrew & all – thank you for the good discussion yesterday.


It is unlikely I will make the next meeting, due to a conflict with an NEC codemaking panel that I am on.  While we didn’t get through my contribution in entirety, we had some good discussion.  I would suggest that you schedule other contributions first, and if I am able to make the meeting, we could just go to discussion of slide 5.  You all can review the rest of the written contribution (offline), and I suspect those items are more self-explanatory, tactical, and noncontroversial; however, the last slide gets to what I think is the heart of what I believe is essential to our future meeting vision – flexibility, trust in our chairs, and support (training where needed) for them to make the adjustments necessary for their group.


We touched on this yesterday, but even before having to have virtual meetings,  flexibility to the individual group’s needs, trust in, and support of our chairs is key.

My experience has been 802 has been tripping over itself because of overly codified rules.  Governing rules are not a standard, nor are they a specification.  To do that leads to situations where the desired behavior is always an exception to the rule.  We must resist our engineering urge to codify everything, as the operational environment is far more diverse and time-variable than we can handle. 

Rules are important tool, but the goal is to remember that we are dealing with humans who want to get a job done, and the best way to do that is balance the structure of rules with guidance, trust, and mentorship of our leaders – and to evolve them with time and circumstance. I have more thoughts on this, but, because they evolve, I will save them until we’ve gotten more of the examples out.




From: Andrew Myles (amyles) <>
Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2021 10:23 PM
To: Andrew Myles (amyles) <>
Subject: Results of IEEE 802 Future meeting vision ad hoc meeting on 14 Oct 2021


G’day all


Thank you for those (all bcc’ed) who attended today’s IEEE 802 Future meeting vision ad hoc. The agenda a notes from today’s meeting are in ec-21-0227-04.


Given we have at least one more submission in the hopper (from Ben Rolfe), I propose we have another one hour session in  two weeks’ time, but one hour later to avoid clashing again with 802.18 WG. I will send the invitation shortly.


The short term goal of these discussions is to focus on:

  • What aspects of remote operation have worked during COVID?
    • Highlight real examples
    • Identify why remote operation was successful in these cases
  • What aspects of remote operation have NOT worked during COVID?
    • Highlight real examples
    • Identify why remote operation was NOT successful in these cases
  • What could be done to turn these failures into successes?
    • Describe some real turnaround examples (if any)
    • … or hypothesise about how this could be done


Submissions are requested. It is easy to criticise, and so if you highlight remote-only has not worked for some activity, please put some real effort into proposing a way to fix the identified issue(s). Also please focus on actual examples rather than strawmen. So far we have had submissions from:

  • George Zimmerman: ec-21-0237-00
    • Presented on 14 Oct 2021
    • George, do you want to do a follow up based on discussion?
  • Ben Rolfe ec-21-0238-00
    • Scheduled for 28 Oct 2021


Would anyone else like to volunteer to present their experiences?


I would like to undertake more discussion off line, and to this end I will consult with the IEEE 802 EC leadership on how they would like to do this, in a manner that is open and yet does not fill the IEEE 802 EC reflector.


Andrew Myles

Manager, Cisco Standards

Andrew Myles
Manager, Enterprise Standards
Phone: +61 2 8446 1010
Mobile: +61 418 656587

Cisco Systems Limited
The Forum 201 Pacific Highway
St Leonards 2065



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