Re: [802SEC] Agenda request for 2022 November 802 Rules Committee: Remov

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Geoff – you’ve confused me. I’m not sure which text of restrictions is appropriately aligned to the original intent (the text as is, without the change proposed by dorothy, or the additional change I proposed…)

The reason I am confused is you say that the ability to participate remotely broadens the educational opportunity, and that it is a bad idea to have them use up their chit “if the show is coming to town” – which seems to be in favor of Dorothy’s change. This doesn’t address the concern I raised which is for the employed individual, also enrolled as a student, to use the proposed change to regularly attend 802 meetings for their employer; however, you do make it clear that you don’t see this as the intent.

-george

From: thompson@ieee.org <thompson@ieee.org>
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2022 11:29 AM
To: George Zimmerman <george@cmephyconsulting.com>
Cc: stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org; Geoff Thompson <thompson@ieee.org>
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Agenda request for 2022 November 802 Rules Committee: Removal of student registration restriction

George-

The student policy was developed when we only had face-to-face meetings and, in general only came through a city <once/4yrs. It was designed to introduce the concept of standards work as part of the student's education. It was not designed to facilitate student participation in standards development (e.g. UNH-IOL).

I believe the original intent was a good idea.

I believe the text of the restrictions is appropriately aligned to original intent.

I also believe that the ability to participate remotely broadens the opportunity for students to educate themselves about standards but it is a bad idea for a student to use up his/her chit if the show is coming to town any time during their student days.

On that basis, I would be opposed to the proposed change.

Geoff Thompson

On Thursday, October 6, 2022, 09:46:59 AM PDT, George Zimmerman <george@cmephyconsulting.com> wrote:

Dorothy –

Thank you for bringing this to the reflector that I can see it.

I am concerned about this as Treasurer. I am sympathetic to the aims, but it would create a significant loophole in our fee structures.

The current rules state that a member of the LMSC needs to certify the student – not really sure what that means.

However, they also define a student rather loosely, where a number of employed individuals that I have known (including myself when I was in grad school and working) would qualify as a student and regular attendees would be able to attend continually as students, specifically:

“A student is defined as currently taking at least 50% of a normal full-time academic program in an

IEEE designated field of interest for the current academic year.”

The academic load isn’t really the discriminator here – it is the affiliation support. I have known a number of individuals taking 80% or even 100% academic loads while working 30+ hours/week, and even classified full time. Allowing affiliations to send people at a student rate isn’t what we are after here. To give the ‘certifying LMSC member’ a better guideline to stand on, I think we need something tied to support.

Not sure, exactly of the wording, but the gist would be to add the condition that the individual’s attendance (including travel, etc.) is not supported outside of the claimed academic affiliation.

-george

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <STDS-802-SEC@listserv.ieee.org> On Behalf Of Stanley, Dorothy
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2022 7:34 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] Agenda request for 2022 November 802 Rules Committee: Removal of student registration restriction

Resending to the correct email reflector.....

------------------------

Dorothy Stanley

Hewlett Packard Enterprise

dorothy.stanley@hpe.com

+1 630-363-1389

From: *** IEEE stds-802-11-cac List *** <STDS-802-11-CAC@listserv.ieee.org> on behalf of Stanley, Dorothy <dorothy.stanley@HPE.COM>
Sent: Thursday, October 6, 2022 6:45 AM
To: STDS-802-11-CAC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG <STDS-802-11-CAC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG>
Subject: [STDS-802-11-CAC] Agenda request for 2022 November 802 Rules Committee: Removal of student registration restriction

--- This message came from the IEEE 802.11 Chairs' Advisory Committee Reflector ---

Dear James and EC members,

I request that the following topic be added to the 802 Rules Committee meeting agenda for the upcoming 2022 November Plenary: Removal of Student registration restriction.

Please see the discussion below; let me know of any comments or questions.

Thanks,

Dorothy

==============================

Removal of Student registration restriction

Currently, student registration is supported for one time attendance only. See 4.2 in https://mentor.ieee.org/802-ec/dcn/17/ec-17-0120-33-0PNP-ieee-802-lmsc-chairs-guidelines.pdf .

I propose modification of the current rules as shown below:

3) The student discount is based upon:
d) Student attendance will not count toward voting rights.
~~e) Each student can only receive this discount for one meeting. Attendance at future meetings~~
~~will require payment of the full fee or LMSC waiver.~~

f) Students will not be included in the Membership Data Base for future meeting
announcements. Since students are expected to change status rapidly, we don't want to try to
keep track of their address.
g) Students might join a Working Group Chair's reflector, at the discretion of the Working
Group Chair.

Background/rationale:

- Have had a handful of students attending WG11 during the low-fee ($50) electronic-only period. One student contributed submissions.
- Would like to enable students to continue to attend; support student engagement and interest in 802 projects.
- Having a large number of students that is problematic to manage/ large financial impact has not been the case in past experience.