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Re: Promotion of bare decorations & comparisons



Nate,
	why are yu throwing away all the nice things we have learnt in P1788 ?
see below

Am 12.01.2013 16:10, schrieb Nathan T. Hayes:
John Pryce wrote:
On 3 Jan 2013, at 22:08, Nathan T. Hayes wrote:
You can construct an equally silly example with that alternative:
     [1,2] \subseteq floor([0,6])
         ...
         = [1,2] \subseteq Empty
         = false

Now we have a false negative.

I don't agree it is a false negative.

Compressing the decorated interval ([0,6],def) into the bare decoration
def
means the user has explicitly indicated anything less than dac is an
error.

So returning false in this example is exactly what the user expects,
since
[1,2] cannot be a subset of any defined and continuous interval range of
floor([0,6]).

I think "Hmm" on this one. What does "any defined and continuous (dac)
interval range
of floor([0,6])" mean? The only meaning I can see is "since floor() isn't
dac on the
input [0,6], such a range doesn't exist; and if we insist on treating this
nonexistent
thing as a set, it must be the empty set".

That is exactly my view... so why the "Hmmm"?



I think the above is for compressed arithmetic with threshold dac. Change
the example
slightly:
   [0,0] \subseteq floor([0,0.9])
Here, floor() IS dac on [0,0.9], so the result as a decorated interval
[0,0]_dac, which
becomes [0,0] as a compressed interval, so we get
   [0,0] \subseteq [0,0]
         = true.
But now change [0,0.9] to the large interval [0,6] and according to Nate's
scheme
above
     [0,0] \subseteq floor([0,6])
         ...
         = [0,0] \subseteq Empty
         = false
I don't think users would expect this: that (A \subseteq f(B)) is true for
some B, but
becomes false when they make B larger.

???
That is what we call enclosure property

If, using compressed arithmetic:

	-- the user explicitly indicates anything less than dac is an error
(by setting the threshold), and

	-- as you agree above "floor() isn't dac on the input [0,6], such a
range doesn't exist"

then please explain why the user would expect
	[0,0] \subseteq floor([0,6])
to be true.
That doesn't make any sense to me.


Michel is right: we should emphasise that X = (a compressed interval whose
value is a
decoration d) is a quite separate object from D = (a decoration whose
value is d).
Nate, if you want arithmetic on decorations, as Motion 8 said, let them be
X's, not D's.
In which case they must follow the worst-case scenario rules for
promotion, that
Arnold stated.

In my view, a bare decoration D is a compressed decorated Empty set of the
form:
	(Empty,D)
Then "bare decorations" and "decorations" are 2 different things.
"bare decorations" are like global states of a DSM
whereas "decorations" or "dress decorations" are attached to an interval and report its history

The Empty set is a set (we both agree about that).
The Empty set is not an interval, i.e., it is not an element of overline-IR

motions 3 and 5 say it is !
I think these 2 motions are the most fundamental motions of 1788, so try to rework the standard wthout them will kill P1788


John
I urge you the delete everything on compressed interval arithmetc out of the final version which we will vote on. Or even better make 2 parts out of the text with separate voting.
Otherwise I promise to vote "NO"


Juergen
--
o Prof. Dr. Juergen Wolff von Gudenberg, Lehrstuhl fuer Informatik II
    / \          Universitaet Wuerzburg, Am Hubland, D-97074 Wuerzburg
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