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Re: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] Feedback on 1934r5

Hi Chaoming,


Two points:

  • We must define which frames are sent as part of the 4-way handshake.
  • We can’t make all sensing roles to be optional first, and then define a minimum feature set.  It won’t work.  I suggest you delete the proposed initiator/responder/transmitter/receiver capabilities from slide 6.  Defining the minimum feature set will require discussion.



From: luochaoming@xxxxxxxx <luochaoming@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 8:03 PM
To: Claudio Da Silva <000015f3cbee3aeb-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: RE: Feedback on 1934r5


Hi Claudio,


Thanks very much for your constructive comments! Please see my reply inline. And please let me know if you have further comments, thanks again!





Date: 2022-04-19 02:49

Subject: RE: Feedback on 1934r5

Sorry, my last email has an error:

For example, define that support of the sensing receiver responder role is mandatory for 11bf capable STAs.




From: Claudio da Silva <000015f3cbee3aeb-dmarc-request@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2022 11:42 AM
To: STDS-802-11-TGBF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [STDS-802-11-TGBF] Feedback on 1934r5




Thanks for all the work you have done on the session setup.  I appreciate it.

Find below a few suggestions and questions on the SPs found in 1934r5.

Thank you for all your effort,




·         Because SP3 describes the overall sensing session setup procedure, my suggestion is to begin with it (that is, make it SP1).

·         [cm] I did make the SP3 as SP1 during the previous offline discussion, but people think it's better to SP for the MS Query related sequences first, and I tend to agree that it's a simpler way to push forward.

o    The “4-way HS” for the associated case must be defined.

o    [cm] I'll correct the term as "4-way handshake", which is already in clause 3.2 and 12.7.6 of the baseline.

o    “For an unassociated STA, after PASN, if there is, an exchange of MS Query….”  What does “if there is” refer to: PASN or “an exchange of MS Query…”?

o    [cm] it does refer to PASN. Would it be better to rewording as "For an unassociated STA, after PASN if PASN is used, an exchange of MS Query…"?

o    I do not believe the figures in slides 7, 8, 9… should be included in the draft.  (If you would like to do so, you will need to reformat them.)  Thus, my suggestion is that we don’t add them in the SFD.  If there is any normative behavior defined in them that you would like to cover, please write text instead.

o    [cm] I'm fine with not adding them in the SFD. My intention was to make it easier to understand the procedure.

·         Propose the edits below (in blue) to (current) SP1.  (Propose to make this SP2.)

o    The intend of the last sentence of this SP is not clear to me (“The polling TF within…”).

o    [cm] The intention of "The polling TF within…" is to describe the cases in slide 10 and 12, which are also related to when and how to use the MS Query frame.

·         I do not agree with some of the sensing capabilities defined in slide 6:

o    Can a STA be “11bf capable” if it does not support the roles of sensing initiator nor of sensing responder?  We must define a minimum feature set for a STA to be “11bf capable.”  For example, define that support of the sensing receiver role is mandatory for 11bf capable STAs.

o    [cm] My thinking is we may write a normative text such as  "if a STA is sensing capable then it shall support at least one of the roles of sensing initiator and/or sensing responder".  IMHO,  "support of the sensing receiver responder role is mandatory for sensing capable STAs" appears a little bit strong, because there may be cases a STA only works as sensing initiator ("neither a sensing transmitter nor a sensing receiver" as in D0.01).

o    “Support of reporting”:  Does this refer to the ability of a STA to send a Sensing Measurement Report frame or report measurements up to the application (same STA)?  This must be defined.

o    [cm] Appologize for the confusion. I should have put a note there "refer to motion 60 for the exact meaning of optional reporting. "


Proposed changes to SP1: 

[cm] Thanks for the refinement, I'll take it.

Do you agree to add the following into 11bf SFD?

·         An unassociated STA (denoted as U-STA) transmits the measurement setup (denoted as MS) Query frame to solicit an MS Request frame from an AP.

o    The MS Query frame may contain the detailed sensing capabilities of the U-STA.

·         Upon receiving an MS Query frame, the AP responds with an MS Request frame to the U-STA.

o    The MS Request frame contains the UID assigned to the U-STA.

o    The MS Request frame contains one bit to inform the U-STA to comeback before session timeout expires to solicit an MS Request frame.

·         The AP can also send a MS Termination frame to the U-STA, which contains one bit indicating termination of the sensing session.

·         The Polling TF within a measurement instance contains one bit to inform the U-STA to transmit an MS Query frame outside the measurement instance.



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