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Suggested changes to 802 tutorial procedures

Several good points are made in the suggestions which I have copied below. I
will ask Howard Frazier to add this item to the Monday SEC meeting, and then
schedule a time when I will aim to improve the tutorial guidelines during
the week, and then have new guidelines to review on Thursday evening.

Just so you are aware, I usually, if given notice, see early tutorial
concepts and help to improve them if needed so they best meet the needs of
IEEE802. I also am solicited occasionally for new ideas and projects in 802
which are started by tutorials.

Jim Carlo( Cellular:1-214-693-1776 Voice&Fax:1-214-853-5274
TI Fellow, Networking Standards at Texas Instruments
Chair, ISO/IEC JTC1/SC6 Telecom and Info Exchange Between Systems
Chair, IEEE802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee

-----Original Message-----
From: []On
Behalf Of Rigsbee, Everett O
Sent: Tuesday, February 29, 2000 7:01 PM
To:; 802 Roger B. Marks
Subject: RE: suggested changes to 802 tutorial procedures

Roger & Geoff,  OK, you're both wrong.  The requests are sent to Dawn with
copies to Jim Carlo and myself, who together perform the gate-keeper
function.  If either Jim or I have any hint of commercialism or perhaps a
single company point-of-view without a balancing point-of-view from other
interested parties, we reject the proposal.  If it's a question of is there
broad enough interest to warrant a tutorial, we would put that to the SEC
for feedback.  The current policy was put together based on the notion that
current WG chairs have more than enough to deal with during the last few
weeks before the plenary, and that it's generally easy to tell what's a
reasonable tutorial and what's not.  To my knowledge, we have yet to have
had an inappropriate tutorial.  I would suggest that until we begin to
experience this problem that we not burden the already tedious process with
further bureaucratic requirements.
Thanx,  Buzz
Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing SSG
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
ph: (425) 865-2443, fx: (425) 865-6721

I concur with Roger's suggesstions and have one additional change.  The
list of valid reasons for holding a tutorial should be expanded to include
"Topics of wide interest to 802 participants".  An example of a well
attended tutorial that fell under this classification is one Geoff and I
did a number of years ago that reviewed the status of international cabling
standards.   Along with that expanded purpose should be an explicit
statement against overly commercial presentations, possibly with some basic
guidelines to dos and don'ts of tutorials.  For simplicity in getting rules
changes approved, the statement and guidelines should be a separately
prepared document on the web site, pointed to with a hyper-link from the
"tutorial request form", or appended to that form, and not an expansion of
our rules.

Best regards.

Robert D. Love
Program Manager, IBM ACS - US
Chair IEEE 802.5 Token Ring Working Group
500 Park Offices                   Phone: 919 543-2746
P. O. Box 12195 CNPA/656           Fax: 419 715-0359
Research Triangle Park, NC 27709, USA    E-Mail:
> ----------
> From: 	Roger B. Marks[]
> Sent: 	Tuesday, February 29, 2000 4:23 PM
> To:
> Subject: 	Re: suggested changes to 802 tutorial procedures
> Geoff:
> >Roger-
> >My opinion.
> >I really don't like any of this. It changes the gate keeper from the
> >members of the Exec to the Chair of 802. The Exec is certainly a small
> >enough group that we ought to be able to do filtering and assignment
> >without an elaborate set of written rules.
> Au contraire. The current gatekeeper of tutorials is Dawn Williams.
> It's in black and white:
> >All official tutorial requests must sent to Dawn Williams at
> > for final approval and confirmation
> I generally have no idea what tutorials are coming until Dawn hands
> me the schedule.
> >The form should NOT be on the web. The form, if we must have it, is for
> >use of WG chairs rather than the use of J. Random Clueless who wishes to
> >advertise in front of 802.
> Mr. Clueless will see that the form needs to be submitted through an
> SEC member.
> Roger
> >Geoff
> >At 10:58 PM 2/28/00 -0700, Roger B. Marks wrote:
> >>I've expressed to Jim my concern about the 802 tutorial procedures.
> >>While the Chair's Guidelines present a good description of an
> >>appropriate tutorial, there are no real procedures to ensure that
> >>tutorials are not overly commercial or to inform other working groups
> >>regarding potential overlap of interests. There has also been poor
> >>advance notification of the tutorials and their schedules.
> >>Jim asked me to make some suggestions. I suggest the following:
> >>web. Few people know about this form, and it is hard to track down.
> >>(2) Include on the form a reference to and link to the "802 Chair's
> >>Guidelines on IEEE 802 Tutorials"
> >><> so that proposers
> >>get help understanding the rules.
> >>(3) Add the following question (taken from the Chair's Guidelines) to
> >>the tutorial request form:
> >>Purpose of Tutorial (choose one and explain):
> >>(a) Explore possible new directions for 802 efforts
> >>(b) Summarize ongoing major work of Study Group or WG or TAG.
> >>(c) Describe basic 802 or other standards process.
> >>(4) Change the approval process, which currently leaves the SEC
> >>members in the dark until Dawn issues an agenda. I suggest changing
> >>the relevant section of the Chair's Guidelines from:
> > >>Mechanics of Tutorials:
> >>>- Hosted by SEC member or Study Group Chair.
> >>>- Announced to SEC reflector before meeting.
> > >>- Scheduled through Classic Consulting/Buzz Rigsbee
> > >>- Conflicts to be resolved by Executive Secretary and SEC chair>
> > >>based on most importance to 802.
> >>to:
> >>>Mechanics of Tutorials:
> >>>- Hosted by SEC member or Study Group Chair.
> >>>- Tutorial Request Form posted to SEC reflector for comment.
> >>>- No less than 7 days after posting, SEC Chair may affirm that
> >>>proposed tutorial is appropriate and then schedule it.
> >>>- Conflicts will be resolved by the SEC chair, but priority will
> >>>generally be by order of request.
> >>I also suggest that the "APPROVAL AND CONFIRMATION" section of the
> > >Tutorial Request Form be changed from:
> > >>All official tutorial requests must sent to Dawn Williams at
> > >> for final approval and confirmation with copies to
> > >>Buzz Rigsbee and to Jim Carlo
> >>> .  A confirmation of your request indicating time slot
> >>>assigned will be sent within 10 days of your submission.
> >>to:
> >>>Tutorial requests must be submitted by an SEC member or Study Group
> >>>Chair to the SEC reflector. After not less than seven days for SEC
> >>>reveiw, the SEC Chair may approve and schedule the meeting, with
> >>>notification to the SEC reflector.
> >>(5) I suggest deleting the following section of the Chair's Guidelines:
> >>>All official tutorial request forms must be submitted at least 45
> >>>days prior to the start of the next IEEE 802 LMSC Plenary Meeting.
> >>>Please refer to the future meetings list on the IEEE 802 Web Site
> > >>at:
> >>No one pays attention to it anyway, and the first-come, first-serve
> >>rule should stimulate earlier requests.
> >>Roger
> >| Geoffrey O. Thompson
> >| Chair IEEE 802.3
> >| Nortel Networks, Inc.  M/S SC5-02
> >| 4401 Great America Parkway
> >| P. O. Box 58185
> >| Santa Clara, CA 95052-8185  USA
> >| Phone: +1 408 495 1339
> >| Fax:   +1 408 495 5615
> >| E-Mail:
> >| Please see the IEEE 802.3 web page at
> >