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Re: [802SEC] Why Buzz



All,

	Also, the question comes up that if we need to poll the
membership every time we consider a non-NA venue then why are we not
polling them for NA venues?

Steve

-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Sherman, Matthew J.
(US SSA)
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 10:12 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Why Buzz

Buzz,

At some point I think we will need to agree to disagree.  You can't poll
people who aren't there.  We don't know who would attend our meetings if
we took them overseas, and your current polls won't tell you.  Other
IEEE organization don't seem to have problems with people affording
their venues, so I don't believe we will either.

Bottom line for me - Sure let's try hosting for year.  But if it doesn't
pan out in a reasonable amount of time, we pay the extra cost and go
abroad anyway....

Mat

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D. 
Engineering Fellow 
BAE Systems -  Network Systems (NS) 
Office: +1 973.633.6344 
Cell: +1 973.229.9520 
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 12:56 PM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
Cc: stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org; dawns@facetoface-events.com
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Why Buzz


Matt,   I'm sorry but I guess I don't understand why you think excluding
people on an economic basis is any more fair or desirable than excluding
people on the basis of travel time difference, which management rarely
considers in approving travel.  We've had numerous comments from our nNA
domiciled attendees that indicate they find NA attendance easier to get
approval for IEEE-802 Sessions because they are inexpensive relative to
nNA venues.  Most groups do nNA venues for interims which are much more
affordable because of size and attendance is optional for those with
severe budget constraints.  Every time we have surveyed our attendees
they have said nNA venues are a good idea as long as they are
affordable.  Having hosts seems to be the secret to getting to
affordable, so that's what we are trying to do.  And we have not been
trying to do that in a consistent and organized way before.  We have
discussed it but there has never been an organized or sanctioned effort
to recruit some real hosts.  So I say we give it a shot a see what we
get.  If we don't get there that way we can always go back to the
drawing board for other options but right now this looks like our best
shot.  So let's give it a real try with EVERY Working Group making a
sincere pitch to their members to find potential hosts.  If we get some
real competition going we just might come up with some really great
deals.  

:-)   So let's work together to make this a winning plan and we can all
be happy with the results !!!


Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing IT
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
Ph: (425) 373-8960    Fx: (425) 865-7960
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
[mailto:matthew.sherman@baesystems.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2007 3:57 AM
To: Rigsbee, Everett O
Cc: stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org; dawns@facetoface-events.com
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Why Buzz

Buzz,

First off, I've already stated I support Roger's plan.  However that is
not the point in its entirety.

You ask would I support $1500-2500 per person with everyone getting
their own hotel space because other IEEE organizations do it?  The
answer is unequivocally yes!  That is exactly my point.

My view is that we have a duty to take our sessions outside of North
America and not stay in NA just because it is cheap.  The fact that
other IEEE organizations can attract thousands of participants abroad is
an existence proof that it can be done and be viable.  Do we want to do
this every meeting - No way.  But once a year?  

Do I want hosted meetings?  Yes I would prefer that.  But this is not
the first time that idea has been suggested and we don't seem to be
doing that well at finding hosts.  So my suggestion is this - Yes let's
try Roger's approach and see who signs up.  But if no one signs up in
some reasonable period of time (1 year, 1.5 years, you tell me) then
lets just bite the bullet and plan that once a year we will have a very
expensive meeting for the sake of getting our session to other areas of
the world.

At least that's my view.

Mat 



Matthew Sherman, Ph.D. 
Engineering Fellow 
BAE Systems -  Network Systems (NS) 
Office: +1 973.633.6344 
Cell: +1 973.229.9520 
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Rigsbee, Everett O [mailto:everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com] 
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 8:50 PM
To: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
Cc: stds-802-sec@listserv.ieee.org; dawns@facetoface-events.com
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Why Buzz


Hey Matt,  I work with those IEEE folks all the time and we share lots
of info on better-than-average venues.  When I showed them our specs and
told them what we were looking for, their response was basically "Rotsa
Ruck, Joe !!!"  They do lots of International Conferences that need a
few big rooms, an exhibit hall, little or no break-outs, and last for
2-3 days.  Their typical attendee fees for these are $1500-$2500/person
and that does not include hotels or transportation.  And that's on top
of all the revenue they get from their exhibitors, and with no hosted
F&B.  Does that sound like what you think we want to do for our
attendees ???  You should stick to your IETF model; that's at least
close and the only major differences are they totally rely on hosting
organizations for their nNA venues and they need a lot less break-outs
than we do.  That's what we've learned in our 3 years of looking hard
for various nNA options.  

I am in touch with my counterpart at IETF (Ray Pelletier) and have been
for the last 3 years.  We have shared a lot of experiences and we are
currently working on a plan to find a nNA venue where we could do
back-to-back IETF and IEEE-802 meeting weeks, so that folks that want to
could do both meetings with just one trip, and we could share costs of
services over the two-week spread so we get to split one set-up &
tear-down fee, and minimum Internet bandwidth charges are usually
monthly fees so we get to split that too (if it is not hosted as it
usually is for IETF).  That's just one more plan under consideration.  

Also I should like to remind you that Paul Nikolich had already
appointed Bob Heile to be our nNA venue specialist, charged with finding
us some affordable nNA venues because I didn't have enough time and
travel budget to do the job properly.  I've only stepped back in lately
because nothing was happening after the groups totally vetoed Bob's plan
to go to Sydney, Australia for March 2009 because we have "been there
and done that".  

Also if you'll remember we had an arrangement with Mary Russell of
Hamilton Group Meeting Planners (HGMP) to find us some nNA venues for
our January 2007 802-hosted Interim.  After a year and a half we came
out with exactly 1 venue (the London Metropole, which we already knew
about) and the cost for that service was $75K plus the $25K we paid in
penalties, so another $100K down the pooper for a site that nobody
liked.  And Mary Russell has great credentials for nNA venues, but as
she says we are either too big or too poor to be able to do this on our
own.  We need some hosting organizations to get better (more affordable)
deals.  

So with Roger's proposal I think we are finally on the right track, but
you have to at least give it a chance to work.  If I have to spend all
my bandwidth on refuting all these personal attacks we really are never
going to get there.  So how about providing some positive support for
Roger's Plan and let's knock off all of this uninformed second-guessing
???    It's really not helping; it's just another diversion from what we
really need to be doing: finding some viable hosts with viable and
affordable venues.  That's where we need the help !!!  Are you up for it
???  I hope so !!!      :-)  


Thanx,  Buzz
Dr. Everett O. (Buzz) Rigsbee
Boeing IT
PO Box 3707, M/S: 7M-FM
Seattle, WA  98124-2207
Ph: (425) 373-8960    Fx: (425) 865-7960
Cell: (425) 417-1022
everett.o.rigsbee@boeing.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Sherman, Matthew J. (US SSA)
[mailto:matthew.sherman@BAESYSTEMS.COM] 
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 4:10 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Why Buzz

Another approach to getting assistance for Buzz is to go to IEEE.

I think they have staff that specializes in setting up meeting venues.
I'm not sure how cost effective that is but it is another possibility.

Mat

Matthew Sherman, Ph.D. 
Engineering Fellow 
BAE Systems -  Network Systems (NS) 
Office: +1 973.633.6344 
Cell: +1 973.229.9520 
email: matthew.sherman@baesystems.com

 

 


-----Original Message-----
From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List *****
[mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of J Lemon
Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 6:08 PM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: [802SEC] Why Buzz

I don't understand why Buzz has been having to do the work on meeting
logistics. Isn't this part of what we pay FTF to do? If it is, let's let
them do their job. Or, if it isn't, why isn't it? Wouldn't it make sense
to pay to have this done for us by professionals instead of either
dumping the load on Buzz or having all of us amateurs try to quickly
learn the business of huge meeting booking?

If making large nNA meeting arrangements is beyond the expertise of FTF,
maybe we could issue a separate contract for booking these, or maybe FTF
could subcontract this out to arrangers in Europe and Asia? I'd rather
the latter, as I'd prefer to have a consistent point of contact for us.
And I'd hate to lose all the expertise that FTF has about what we need
and desire.

jl

On 12/3/2007 6:04 AM, Tony Jeffree wrote:
>
> I repeat, I would like for *us all* to truly focus on the problem.
> Buzz is a volunteer, just like the rest of us; this isn't his only
> job. And there is a limit to what one person can do in a situation
> where we are attempting to do something that is new for the
> organisation and may not necessarily conform to the way business is
> routinely done in NA. He doesn't need us making more rods for his
> back; what he needs is practical help and support. Lets start doing
that.
>
> Regards,
> Tony

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