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Re: [802SEC] +++ EC Early Close Motion: modify IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual


This is the problem with a proposal that is not well thought out.

If we are going to make a permanent (rather than a temporary change via suspension of the rules) to our plenary session, it needs to be well thought out.

Note that in this case, the key is attendance credit during a plenary session.  The WG chair can provide attendance credit for an individual, but not for all attendees on a session outside of a plenary or an interim session.

I disagree with your interpretation.

James Gilb

On Friday, June 5, 2020, 9:43:44 AM PDT, Roger Marks <> wrote:


I can give you a personal opinion.


On Jun 5, 2020, 7:18 AM -0600, Stanley, Dorothy <>, wrote:

Hello Roger,


Would you please clarify the intended meaning of “on the preannounced dates per the announced time zone”? I read this to mean that only WG and WG subgroup meetings during the pre-announced week (e.g. July 13-17) would count as occurring “during the plenary”. So a WG could not spread out subgroup teleconference meetings across several weeks, and have these meetings as included in the Plenary. Is my interpretation correct?

The WG P&P says that It also says that "Membership may be declared at the discretion of the Working Group Chair (e.g., for contributors by correspondence or other significant contributions to the Working Group). The Working Group Chair may authorize meeting attendance credit for individuals while on activities approved by the Working Group Chair." So I believe the WG Chair has the authorization to extend participation credit to meetings outside the designated dates.

Regarding 802 officer and WG officer elections, this motion enables such elections to be held during the indicated week. Is this correct?

Yes, per the WG P&P 3.1, the WG officer terms and elections are specified per Plenary Session, and "A plenary session is as defined in the 'Plenary sessions' subclause of the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual." Likewise, in the LMSC P&P, "All appointed and elected positions become effective at the end of the plenary session where the appointment/election occurs. A plenary session is as defined in Plenary Sessions subclause of the IEEE 802 LAN/MAN Standards Committee Operations Manual."

The EC approved a motion to suspend the rules and apply new rules for July PAR processing. Does this motion nullify that action?

No, there is no nullification of the suspension of that motion, and no contradictions arise. The July PAR process is established either way.

Regarding obtaining and losing WG/TG voting rights, These changes appear to result in voting rights being obtained by a Potential Voter by attendance at a single WG (or WG subgroup) teleconference, as would occur at a face-to-face plenary. Similarly, an aspirant, for example would earn credit for attending the WG plenary if they attend 75% of the designated required WG meetings during the session. A Voter would likewise lose voting rights by not attending 75% of the designated WG meetings during the session, if they required attendance at the session to obtain voting rights. Is this correct?

Yes, the usual rules would apply relating attendance and membership. For example, person who has previously met the attendance requirements has the right to be a member when participating in the session. The Chair's Discretion continues to apply.








Dorothy Stanley

Hewlett Packard Enterprise

+1 630-363-1389


From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of Roger Marks
Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 1:09 PM
Subject: [802SEC] +++ EC Early Close Motion: modify IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual


Dear LMSC,

The LMSC Chair has designated me to administer the following electronic ballot:

Moved: To approve the following changes to the IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual:

(1) In subclause 5.1 ("Plenary sessions"), change the first paragraph:

"Plenary sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. All active IEEE 802 LMSC WGs hold their plenary sessions during IEEE 802 LMSC plenary sessions."


"Plenary Sessions are the primary LMSC sessions. An LMSC Plenary Session is a multiday set of meetings identified as an LMSC Plenary Session by decision of the Standards Committee. The LMSC Plenary Session venue shall be announced at least 30 days in advance. In exceptional cases, with less than 30 days notice if necessary, the Standards Committee may cancel an announced venue and may decide that the Plenary Session will be held by electronic means as an electronic Plenary Session on the preannounced dates per an announced time zone. With the exception of electronic Plenary Sessions, all active IEEE 802 Working Groups shall meet in-person (possibly with one or more participants contributing via electronic means) during each Plenary Session."

(2) In clause 5 ("IEEE 802 LMSC sessions"), delete the third paragraph:

"All active Working Groups shall meet during each IEEE 802 Plenary Session. All Working Group meetings shall be exclusively in-person. Additionally, Working Groups and Technical Advisory Groups are allowed to have electronic meetings to make decisions between Plenary Sessions, but such meetings do not count for participation credit."

(3) In subclause 4.1.3, change the first sentence of the second paragraph to:

"The IEEE 802 LMSC meets in-person during in-person plenary sessions and electronically during electronic Plenary Sessions."

Moved: Marks
Seconded: Law


(a) The ballot opens 2020-06-04 and closes no later than 2020-06-14 AoE.

(b) As this is an urgent matter, the ballot will be closed once sufficient response is received to clearly decide the matter.

(c) This motion is taken under clause 11.0 of the active (as of 2020-05-22) IEEE 802 LMSC Policies and Procedures <>. Accordingly, the revision was proposed on 2020-04-27 <>, more than the required 30 days in advance. As authorized, amendments to the proposal in response to comments have been made, as documented at <>.

(d) Changes would be made to the active IEEE 802 LMSC Operations Manual <>.

(e) The ballot requires a 2/3 vote of LMSC members. We have 13 voting members, 2/3 is 9 affirmative votes.




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