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Re: [802SEC] Resetting the March 2022 registration fee


I’ve been trying to resist posting, but obviously can no longer resist.

I’ve felt that the virtual registration rates were too low for some time, but expressed that to very few people.  Instead of having virtual rates double what they were (e.g., $150 or $200 early registration instead of $75), the proposed rates will have unpredictable results on registration (IMO).  The cost of traveling to and attending an in-person meeting can run thousands of dollars as has been pointed out by others, so the costs to participate in the last two years have been a very low “sincerity test”; and the significant change in registration fee is still not an equivalent test.

Though I’ll be interested to see if a $400-$800 registration fee causes some to fail the "sincerity test” and drop participation, I trust the EC looking at the actual numbers will use prudent financial judgement on how attendance might change based on a dramatic jump in registration fee, and what reserve is needed for the anticipated losses from cancellation of the March in-person hotel contract.

As to how to treat the 41 that registered early?  I like both Option 4 and Option 5, but think a little more definition is needed and would combine them.  I know there is a “fairness” consideration, but I don’t know if there is a legal consideration.  I know some US states have shelf pricing laws (e.g., the price placed on a can of soup on the grocery store shelf can’t be increased, hence the price moving to the shelf rather than the can).  I do not know if any similar law would apply, and registration being virtual would be tied to Florida laws or if any federal laws for interstate commerce would apply (I expect interstate would be extended to inter-nation).  At a minimum IEEE risk management should be consulted on this if they haven’t already been put on notice.

I would suggest combining Options 4 and 5.  

1.  A $75 credit for those that have already registered when registering again at the new rates.  (I know this is more complicated to implement that a refund of a cancelled $75 registration, but legal considerations might favor one or the other.)  
2.  I also favor grandfathering the early rate as implied in Option 5.  If they pay the increased rate difference before the start of the plenary series, they would get the new early rate (e.g., $400) independent of date.  
3.  Provide a liberal cancellation policy to those $41 people.  Perhaps if they don’t attend, we refund the $75 even if they don’t cancel in advance of the meeting.
4.  There also needs to be a late registration policy for these 41 individuals.  I would propose that failure to register at the increased rate prior to the start of the meeting makes them liable for the new late registration fee amount if they attend any part of the plenary session that required a fee.


On Dec 22, 2021, at 2:24 PM, Geoff Thompson <thompson@IEEE.ORG> wrote:

Option 4:  Give them a $75 credit/discount when they register.
Option 5:  They have until the start of the meeting to make up the "missing"  funds from their early registration.


On Wednesday, December 22, 2021, 12:10:41 PM PST, Clint Powell <> wrote:

I too registered early. As a non EC voter I would be happy with any decision.

FWIW - My personal preference is that we do not do anything that requires dipping into the 802 accnt. balance.





From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <> On Behalf Of Jon Rosdahl
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Resetting the March 2022 registration fee


For the record, we had 49 that paid prior to halting the registration.

I was one, but have tested the system to pay a second payment to the projected fee.

We have emails ready to send, but we will need to know what the new amount may be before we send.

We have the registration system ready to turn on January 5th after the new fee structure is known.


While there may be one or more of us on the EC that have previously registered, I would ask that we keep the questions that we discuss simple.


The Question at hand is do we revisit the fee for the 2022 March 802 Electronic Plenary Session..

 (We are discussing whether we should increase the meeting fee to cover all or most of the costs associated with the 2022 March Session.)


I would ask Roger to hold his question on potential fee waivers.

I would ask we take the question on what to do with the Registrations already done separately as well.


I believe that in my mind, we have two options:

1. Leave as originally announced.

2. change to the nominal 400/600/800 which is the fees we agreed to as a body before.


Supporting statement for option 1 - it was what we originally said.

Supporting statement for option 2: - we would expect the average income to be about $450 (700 ppl), and that would cover our anticipated costs for 2022 March.


Respectfully submitted for consideration,




Jon Rosdahl                             Engineer, Senior Staff
IEEE 802 Executive Secretary   Qualcomm Technologies, Inc.
office: 801-492-4023
                  10871 North 5750 West
cell:   801-376-6435                   Highland, UT 84003

A Job is only necessary to eat!
A Family is necessary to be happy!!


On Wed, Dec 22, 2021 at 12:00 PM Benjamin Rolfe <> wrote:

I too have already registered. I am wondering how many people have already. I don't see that as a reason to recuse myself from the discussion, since I don't have a vote.

But seriously, there are a limited number of choices and if it's a few people we can handle it on a case by case basis.  So asking each person what they want to do is option zero. 

Option 1: I'm OK with donating an extra $75 to the treasury under the circumstances.  I'll register again when the fee is decided and registration reopened, at whatever fee is decided, no worries.  Take one for the 802 team.  I get to remind the EC voting members that I advocated enthusiastically for deferring the decision on March until negotiations were complete. That and the warm feeling I'm helping solve a problem is worth it. 

Option 2 is refund the $75 to the early adopters.

Option 3 is honor the "super early bird" rate and consider those (few?) people registered. 


I'll do 1, 2 or 3 as the group decides or if you ask me personally, 1.


Happy holidays



From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <> on behalf of Law, David <dlaw@HPE.COM>
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2021 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Resetting the March 2022 registration fee


Dear EC members,
Notwithstanding concluding the fee reset decision first, I'm one of the individuals that have already registered. Upon reflection, I don't feel it would be appropriate for me to take part in deciding what to do about individuals in that situation. I'm therefore recusing myself from discussions and decisions about what to do regarding individuals who have already registered.
Best regards,


From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <> On Behalf Of George Zimmerman
Sent: 20 December 2021 19:35
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Resetting the March 2022 registration fee

We need to decide that separately, and need to first make a decision on the reset itself.
Without getting into operationally how we handle this small number of individuals, I believe it is fair to the bulk of our membership that the new fee structure apply.  However, that is for the EC to decide, and I suggest we hold on that until we have concluded on a fee reset itself.

From: Benjamin Rolfe <> On Behalf Of Benjamin Rolfe
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2021 11:31 AM
To: STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG; George Zimmerman <>
Subject: Re: Resetting the March 2022 registration fee

How do we handle folks who had registered prior to the "reset"?

From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** <> on behalf of George Zimmerman <mailto:george@CMEPHYCONSULTING.COM>
Sent: Monday, December 20, 2021 10:59 AM
Subject: [802SEC] Resetting the March 2022 registration fee
All -
To kick off the discussion, I'd like to first point out that in the past we have used a 'regular' meeting fee structure of approximately $400/$600/$800 USD for 802 plenary meetings. This was based on smoothing the meeting expense across multiple meetings - a practice afforded by our keeping a relatively large reserve, and a relatively low chance of paying a meeting cancellation fee.
With the onset of the pandemic, our Executive Secretary has been extremely successful in avoiding meeting cancellation fees.  In many cases this has resulted in deposits held by venues for future meetings, which, in conjunction with continued operating expenses, has drained the 802 bank balance to approximately $545,000, an amount less than the operating expenses of a single meeting.
As a result, we need to set an amount for a single meeting much more closely tied to the actual expenses, especially in the face of continued uncertainty.
As announced, the March 2022 meeting will incur a significant cancellation fee, and the anticipated total expense of the meeting (includes cancellation fee and  electronic meeting administration expenses)  will be about $300,000. Over an expected number of 700 paid registrants (our usual budgeting number), this would warrant an average income of about $430 per registrant.  (Note that the average is usually much closer to the 'early bird' fee than the 'regular' fee)
The pandemic has already gone on longer than expected, and given the continued uncertainty, it would not be prudent to expect to amortize this fee across multiple meetings.  Note that should we have to cancel the July meeting, we are contractually obligated to significant cancellation fees for it. 
Based on the anticipated cost for March 2022,  I would propose and support we revise the registration fee for the March 2022 802 plenary at $400/$600/$800 with the same transition dates as previously announced ($400 until Jan 28, 2022;  then $600 until Feb 25, 2022,  and $800 after Feb 25, 2022).
George Zimmerman
IEEE 802 LMSC Treasurer
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