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Re: [802SEC] Suggested forms of questions from Treasurer for Working Groups and TAGs

Ben – understood – but that data should be collected prior to our meeting. (which was actually the main point of our earlier discussion about the date of our meeting being  the 24th and not the 23rd)

Hopefully the information I provided below will enable those collecting the data to hit the relevant points, and answer simple questions for context.

The .15 closing plenary should have been last Friday –does the poll close later? (.19 closing plenary is Thursday, as is .3)




From: Benjamin A. Rolfe <>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 11:55 AM
To: George Zimmerman <>; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: Re: [802SEC] Suggested forms of questions from Treasurer for Working Groups and TAGs


Reminder that the data is not yet in, as we have a poll ongoing in 802.15 and 802.19 has not yet held their closing.


On 7/21/2020 11:05 AM, George Zimmerman wrote:

Thank you, Dorothy, this is helpful.  I’m inclined to think that members who require rationalization generally should answer no, because we can’t really count on support.  They might be convinced, but may not be, but they should understand that we charge to offset actual expenses (see below if you want more detail).


All – there are many ways to process this data, so far what I’ve seen, the group has gotten access to the data itself.  Getting any contextual discussion, as Dorothy has done, helps (at least my) understanding of the underlying assumptions. 

Some, like Glenn, may look for single meeting mode with the most support, whereas others, like Roger, may look at the lowest meeting number for which cumulative support exceeds 50%.  Ultimately, these are perspective of the reader – the data is the data – so providing the raw data and context is very useful.


It is my opinion that it is important that we get the information in the context of willingness to pay in amounts of $150 or more, at least for the near term.  Having an affirmative answer with a supposition that the collected amount is $50-$100 generally doesn’t help in light of the fact that $50 is what we pay face-to-face in the event of an individual cancellation.


In some side discussions, it has become clear to me that we need to be thinking about this as two different modes.  This is important, at least for the reason that our superior rules limit what we can charge for.

  1. near-term, which includes the expense of unwrapping a scheduled and contracted face-to-face venue. (a last minute cancellation can range from $250k to $700k – which, with our typical 600-700 attendee number is $360 to $1000 expense per head – earlier cancellations would start more around $115k, which is more like $170 per head, but never $100 or less).
  2. long-term, which would be planned from the start as a virtual meeting – these would be directly related to (only) virtual meeting expenses.


Based on our ad hoc meeting yesterday I will be putting together information on several scenarios for the finances of a reduced number of face-to-face meetings for 802 for the EC to review.  I urge patience in this process.


From: Stanley, Dorothy <>
Sent: Tuesday, July 21, 2020 8:13 AM
To: George Zimmerman <>; STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG
Subject: RE: [802SEC] Suggested forms of questions from Treasurer for Working Groups and TAGs


Hello George,


The WG11 Closing Plenary was held on Thursday, 2020-07-16 from 9-11AM Eastern.


We conducted one straw poll related to the electronic plenaries, results shown below.


During the discussion, questions on the topics of incurred costs for electronic plenaries, and the expected amount of the registration fee were raised.

Costs and fees in the range of $50 - $150 were estimated by some, for teleconference facilities for example.

Also discussed was the likelihood of the fee varying by session, depending on venue cancellation fees.

One member indicated that in the absence of a fee amount and the rationale, the member had to vote no.

A question was also raised relating to paying for ongoing teleconference facilities.


I am happy to poll the 802.11 membership on this and related topics in the future and suggest that we also provide
data on the expected registration fee amount & rationale.







Are you willing to pay a registration fee for participation in electronic meetings held in place of plenary and interim face-to-face meetings?


Yes = 159

No = 56

Abstain = 46

No Response = 47




Dorothy Stanley

Hewlett Packard Enterprise

+1 630-363-1389


From: ***** IEEE 802 Executive Committee List ***** [mailto:STDS-802-SEC@LISTSERV.IEEE.ORG] On Behalf Of George Zimmerman
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:57 PM
Subject: [802SEC] Suggested forms of questions from Treasurer for Working Groups and TAGs


Chairs – with regards to the questions for your groups, I suggest the following questions be asked.  It will help us to collate the results, and to focus the responses.  Please pay attention to the discrete choices given, because free-form results could make understanding the answers difficult.

Thank you,




1. Given that IEEE 802 incurs significant expenses cancelling (plenary) face-to-face meetings, it has been suggested that a meeting fee might be charged for attendance at electronic meetings substituting for those face-to-face plenaries.  What would you consider the highest reasonable and fair registration fee range to be: (select one)

a. $800-$500

b. $500-$300

c. $150-$300

d. My employer/sponsor is unwilling to pay meeting fees for electronic meetings.


2. Once government and company restrictions have been lifted, what do you perceive as the reasonable number of face to face meetings (plenaries and interims) per year?

6 (pre-2020 amount, 3 plenaries, 3 interims):

(below, the division between plenaries and interims is TBD)



< 3:


George Zimmerman, Ph.D.

President & Principal

CME Consulting, Inc.

Experts in Advanced PHYsical Communications



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